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Old 29-03-2019, 02:07   #76
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Re: MOB for Couples

Just saw the other MOB thread.
There was this video which illustrates nicely what we try to achieve.
Solo onboard trying to recover it is really a major feat (here they struggle without being solo!)

https://youtu.be/VPmNo-jo4tg
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Old 29-03-2019, 02:18   #77
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Re: MOB for Couples

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Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Just saw the other MOB thread.
There was this video which illustrates nicely what we try to achieve.
Solo onboard trying to recover it is really a major feat (here they struggle without being solo!)

https://youtu.be/VPmNo-jo4tg
BUT.... very few of any cruisers will encounter the conditions experienced in your video over a lifetime of cruising. Sure it happens with racers or those who travel far up north or South, BUT.... most of us donít and instead seek out good weather windows with pleasant conditions.

It doesnít always look like the video when one gets off shore, most of the time things are rather benign, smooth sailing in the trades.

Just ask Boatman if you donít believe me. Sure, very rarely conditions might get stormy, but during that time jacklines, tethers and safety harnesses are in order and worn, thus greatly reducing the risk of going over in the first place.
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Old 29-03-2019, 02:22   #78
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Re: MOB for Couples

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Pretty sure of your 90% aren't you. For my cruising I don't believe it is likely at all that we will have a true MOB in benign inshore conditions. So the 90% is just a BS number for our type cruising. Might be good for yours, but no need to try and foist it on others.

Since most all of us well understand the simplistic approach where the MOB near enough jumps back in the boat over the swimstep, it is more interesting to better understand the more difficult situations.
I’m not afraid to show what type of cruising we do.... so please don’t try to diminish my comments and opinions with your negative dribble.

So far, we haven’t heard much if any in the way of constructive planning or suggestions from you... just criticism attempting to derail the discussion. Care to change that?
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Old 29-03-2019, 02:33   #79
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Re: MOB for Couples

The Clipper overboard occurred in far from extreme conditions.
Quote:
The incident happened in rough weather with 35 knots of wind and clear visibility in daylight.
We just came up from Tasmania and it was blowing 30's with two conflicting sea chains on a moonless night. We're just Mom and Pop cruisers who watch the weather carefully.
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Old 29-03-2019, 02:50   #80
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Re: MOB for Couples

I think a lot of people put too much reliance in the Lifesling (it is a great invention) as a mob solution, but it is a recovery tool.
The lifesling is attached to the boat, and doesnít stay with the person who has just gone over the side. If someone goes over, the other person needs to throw/deploy something that is visible.... there is no-one assigned to watch the person in the water... and hopefully what ever is thrown can help the person in the water to float like a life ring with a drouge attached,... and a dan buoy. Once the boat is back to the person in the water use the lifesling.
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Old 29-03-2019, 03:04   #81
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Re: MOB for Couples

@Kenomac

I agree completely that most cruising does occur under much more begnin conditions.
Why should I dispute that?

We always try to avoid bad weather, but I did have a few occasions in my sailing life in which the weather misbehaved and did change drastically in a very short time (and it was not in the forecast either).
If course you can see it coming, but you have to deal with it then.

But, in a thread like this one we talk about recovering someone who has gone overboard.

It can happen and does happen in such conditions as well. Just imagine slipping on the fore deck while trying to get the tiny storm jib up (not everyone has fully automatic sailing...).
Even if the POB is still tethered and dangling 1m below the lifeline with an inflated lifevest on a pitching bow it will be a MAJOR feat to get her/him back onboard.
I'd probably try to tie a longer line to them in this situation and then cut the tether to get them to a better recovery position.

So I do think it's valid also to ponder about situations like the one in the video.

I'd think you agree that giving up and thinking to bad, can't be done, is not a real option, is it?

On our boat we have a ladder between the two bows which can be tilted down until under water, that might help.
Alternative is a ladder in the back. Still, if the POB is injured we need to winch them in. We can do that from our (ugly!) arch in the back of the boat.

In any case I do think training our partners to handle the boat single handed is really important. Still 3years of sailing vs. 40years of sailing experience will always make a difference.

Safe sailing & stay onboard!

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Old 29-03-2019, 03:49   #82
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Re: MOB for Couples

A lot of useful stuff, but I think we did one better. We were on the Oceans of this world for more than three years as a couple, and losing your mate was always a "worst case" scenario.

The main problem - after you've figured out that your better half has gone swimming - is communication. For that reason we always had a hand held VHF strapped to the horseshoe ring next to the wheel. And the procedure was very clear: The first thing you do is throw it overboard. You may lose sight of the person in the water almost immediately, but the swimmer will watch for hours with mounting horror as your search pattern takes you further and further away. Being able to talk to you is the single most important factor to a successful recovery.

The second thing was more of a Cat detail. Since the sterns would slam rather violently in wild weather, we had a rope ladder permanently fixed in the middle of the front crossbeam. After dropping the main and furling the genoa, the next step would have been to rip open the bag and drop the ladder. Thereafter it would have been listening to the directions of the person in the water until you can see them and then steer the boat gently towards them.

Nothing happened on our trip, but we've had several people copy our VHF arrangement along the way...

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Old 29-03-2019, 05:04   #83
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Re: MOB for Couples

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Originally Posted by nautical62 View Post
No this is nothing like saying one shouldn't know how to reef...
It's exactly like that. You and Ken contend that 80/90/99% of the time getting an MOB back aboard is so easy that we shouldn't even be talking or worrying about the other 20/10/1% of the time.

80/90/99% of the time when we go sailing we hoist the main, roll out the jib and away we go. By your logic I don't need to bother learning or practicing reefing with those odds. Since the odds are so low when the sh!t hits the fan I'll just figure it out then (or my partner will while I'm floating in the water unconscious).
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Old 29-03-2019, 05:27   #84
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Re: MOB for Couples

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I have yet to do it, but have considered practicing with a PDF and forcing her to go through the drills.
I understand your point, but I would say that I have never had much luck "forcing" my wife to do anything. Gentle attempts at persuasion usually work much better.

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Very few MOB situations happen which require any of the preparations you mention above.
Very few. That's true. But not NONE!


So, yes, we should spend most of our time thinking about how we will recover a MOB in the most common sort of situation. It would, however, be foolish not to spend at least SOME time considering what we would do in those not-so-common situations, also.
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Old 29-03-2019, 05:34   #85
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Re: MOB for Couples

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It's exactly like that. You and Ken contend that 80/90/99% of the time getting an MOB back aboard is so easy that we shouldn't even be talking or worrying about the other 20/10/1% of the time.

80/90/99% of the time when we go sailing we hoist the main, roll out the jib and away we go. By your logic I don't need to bother learning or practicing reefing with those odds. Since the odds are so low when the sh!t hits the fan I'll just figure it out then (or my partner will while I'm floating in the water unconscious).
So then come up with some 25 step cluster flunk improved plan which involves block and tackle, support pole, specialized lifting sling, special clips, throwing floatation device, handheld VHF, harness, full-time rescue swimmer, etc. Test it all out in some nasty weather, then.... see how well your significant other can repeat the process several weeks later.... without written directions while continuously keeping an eye on a MOB.

Please let us know how well it works out.
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Old 29-03-2019, 06:55   #86
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Re: MOB for Couples

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
So, yes, we should spend most of our time thinking about how we will recover a MOB in the most common sort of situation. It would, however, be foolish not to spend at least SOME time considering what we would do in those not-so-common situations, also.
I agree whole-heartedly! In fact the simpler technique is what i would want to make sure my wife & I BOTH practiced, to the point of feeling VERY comfortable. It could vary drastically for different vessels obviously. And in most conditions with the MOB completely functional it could be extremely easy!

As for the other conditions, I don't think anyone is really advocating a "25 step cluster flunk improved plan which involves block and tackle, support pole, specialized lifting sling, special clips, throwing flotation device, handheld VHF, harness, full-time rescue swimmer, etc." But we are trying to have a "CIVIL" discussion about possible methods that are realistic and feasible. If we don't know and we don't ask the question we might not LEARN from someone who has a better method. Condescending remarks and attitudes don't really help. I am paying attention to ALL the posts and comments because in spite of the fact I have been going offshore for all of my 60 years I think I can still learn from others. I have retrieved MOB's, HOB's and Dogs in many conditions but it doesn't mean I know everything.

I for one, hope everyone continues to constructively contribute. I plan to do everything I can to prevent MOB's especially in bad conditions, but I would be negligent if I didn't at least give recovery in these situations some consideration. Adaptability will be key, and if I can at least have these discussions with my wife/partner then it may make all the difference.

Just my opinion of course!
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Old 29-03-2019, 07:10   #87
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Re: MOB for Couples

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... Adaptability will be key, and if I can at least have these discussions with my wife/partner then it may make all the difference....
IMO this is the key. And it is pretty easy to adapt downward to 'get close and let them climb aboard'. The forethought I want to have is so that I or my partner don't have adapt upward in a difficult situation. After all, for those 80/90/99% scenarios standard boat handling techniques are pretty much all you need. If your selected technique is heaving-to above the MOB for instance, that's really no different than heaving-to for other reasons.

FWIW it's worth I suspect that on our boat the simple 'pull them up the sugar scoop' in less than benign conditions could well result in two people in the water watching the boat sail away. There have been occasions when I've had to be back there underway, and in a lively sea it can be a challenge to stay aboard. And yet that would be the easiest place for someone to collect an MOB, or hook a clip/line/sling/rope on/around the MOB.
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Old 29-03-2019, 08:07   #88
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Re: MOB for Couples

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Iím not afraid to show what type of cruising we do.... so please donít try to diminish my comments and opinions with your negative dribble.

So far, we havenít heard much if any in the way of constructive planning or suggestions from you... just criticism attempting to derail the discussion. Care to change that?
You keep posting that video to substantiate your "cred." And I give you all the props. But to reinforce what "all" the other posters are saying, what is your mob plan for conditions like that? Becauseóreading between the linesóit seems like you MOB plan for shirty conditions is "Don't fall off," which I recall you poo-pooing earlier.

And despite whatever snark may have creeped into my tone, I am actually interested. You are an experienced cruiser, have a big perhaps unwieldy boat, do sail in less than optimal conditions double-handed where perhaps the water isn't the warmest. You have a brain fart, step over the combing to snag an errant doohickey and bang, over you go. Now what?
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Old 29-03-2019, 13:26   #89
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Re: MOB for Couples

Since 99.9+% of boats don't go far offshore, it is very likely that an MOB will not occur offshore. Far more MOBs occur from the dock and between a tied up boat and the dock or tender. So with Kenos logic we should just focus on these and ignore the offshore MOBs because it won't happen to most people. Just bogus logic.
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Old 29-03-2019, 13:50   #90
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Re: MOB for Couples

5miles offshore or less can be just as nasty if you are in the wrong spot and along an unsheltered stretch of coast.
Actually it's worse, because you have less time to get on top of the situation.
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