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Old 30-05-2013, 13:10   #76
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

The man had exactly the equipment he needed to notify and guide rescuers to him and his boat - an EPIRB.

This is much more than many people have.

How the EPIRB got separated from the boat is a mistery. Would be good if we could solve mistery and all learn from any mistake that may have taken place.

Most likely having the EPIRB with boat would only have made the recovery of his body happen faster and not really change what matters.

RIP
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Old 30-05-2013, 13:50   #77
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but can't afford a transponder, then stop going out to bars for a month... or whatever else money goes to. If that is not possible, take a weekend job for a month. Me, with my 64' boat, also had to earn every dime I have with hard work. I was the 23ft boat guy too, make no mistake, I know exactly how it's like.
+1

True on so many levels and not just for this topic
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Old 30-05-2013, 14:16   #78
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Old 30-05-2013, 14:19   #79
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
For those who can't understand how the USCG could fail to find the boat, I suggest you try to arrange a ride-along on a training mission some time. The ocean is huge. Even just between the Keys and Cuba, when you're up in an airplane, it looks like solid blue for miles and miles.

Then, too, you have to balance altitude against searchable area. That is, the higher you are, the farther you can see, but the harder it is to pick out things on the water. Get too low, and you can't see far enough. Get too high and you can't see a small boat on the ocean (and, face it, unless you're in a cruise ship or a destroyer, your boat looks SMALL out there!). So this is the balancing act that searchers are always trying to perform.

Really, I think if you had flown out across the ocean at a couple of thousand feet, trying to see what was down below you, you would understand just how very easy it is to NOT see one of our little boats bobbing along. Cut the SAR guys a little slack. They do the best that they possibly can, and are extremely aware, on every single mission, that lives are at stake.
And in 20 knots there are THOUSANDS of whitecaps everywhere you can see. Pretty hard to pick a white boat out of them from a distance.
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Old 30-05-2013, 14:44   #80
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

I knew I should have gone with the fluorescent orange instead of white!
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Old 30-05-2013, 15:29   #81
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

To assert that AIS should be mandatory on the basis of

<<"... posts criticizing the lack of success by the emergency services.

They want their safety belligerently ensured but without the price tag or 'loss' of 'liberty'.>>

strikes me as tit-for-tat, which is not usually a mature or effective response.

The vocal minority who blame the state for this incident are delusional, and should be refuted or ignored

... not pandered to, rewarded or heeded by imposing a further passive, technology-based impost on everyone, in a futile attempt to shut them up.

EPIRBS are intended for this exact situation: they are reliable, self-supporting, effective and sufficient: the state found the EPIRB immediately.

The only person who could have done anything about ensuring he was in the same piece of ocean as the EPIRB was the user.

Possibly the reason he did not ensure this was that he was dead, which would render the point moot, but whatever the reason, it's hardly a problem to be solved at the level of society: this sort of problem has to be solved at the level of the individual.

Otherwise, the logical response would be a law making it an offence for sailors not to have an EPIRB chip surgically attached or implanted <irony>

- - - - -

AIS class B is an aid to vessels to prevent them running into each other.

If it has SAR applications, they are peripheral and supplementary to EPIRB

It seems to be an emergent reflex to try to patch human failings by redoubling technological efforts.

This is not only never-ending, but self-defeating.

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Old 30-05-2013, 15:32   #82
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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The vocal minority who blame the state for this incident are delusional, and should be refuted or ignored
Where is that vocal minority? Did I miss something? No one blamed the state for this at all.
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Old 30-05-2013, 15:39   #83
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

Is it too late to point out that we don't have enough facts to determine what, if anything, would have changed the outcome of this sad event? We don't really have any idea what happened. KeysNet has an article up today:

Quote:
SEARCH AND RESCUE
Missing boater’s body found in Cuba
Jay Rydberg was tethered to his vessel found on rocky beach
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By DAVID GOODHUE
dgoodhue@keysreporter.com
Posted - Thursday, May 30, 2013 05:19 PM EDT

This is Jay Rydberg, seen here in a photo posted on his Facebook page behind the wheel of his 39-foot trimaran sailboat.
A missing boater expected to arrive in Key West two weeks ago after traveling from Fort Myers was found dead tethered to his sailing vessel on a rocky Cuban beach earlier this week.

Cuban authorities found Jay Wesley Rydberg’s body alongside his 39-foot trimaran boat, the 3/4 Time, on Tuesday on shore about 44 miles east of Havana, said George Toms, Rydberg’s friend and Key West neighbor.

The Cubans called the U.S. Coast Guard, which contacted Rydberg’s sister Jill Lesseig in Fairbanks, Alaska. “She notified me,” Toms, 54, said.

Coast Guard spokesman Petty Officer John Paul Rios confirmed Rydberg’s body was found in Cuba, but referred all other questions surrounding his death to the U.S. Department of State. A State Department spokesman did not get back to The Reporter in time for deadline Thursday afternoon.

Rydberg, 40, was reported missing May 13 while he was en route to Key West. Lesseig told the Monroe County Sheriff’s Office that her brother moved to Florida from Alaska to be closer to his 11-year-old son, who lives in Southwest Florida.

Rydberg lived on his boat in the Garrison Bight Marina in Key West. Earlier this month, he sailed to Fort Myers. He called his sister on the morning of May 13 to tell her he was returning to Key West. Lesseig told deputies that her brother seemed calm and relaxed and that he said he would be in Key West by May 14 or 15.

But at 4:13 a.m. May 14, the Coast Guard detected his Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon, known as an EPIRB, and initiated a search. The EPIRB was found 33 miles north of Key West but they found no signs of Rydberg or his vessel.

The Coast Guard suspended its search for Rydberg after four days, Rios said.

At the time the beacon went off, the wind was blowing 20 knots and there were 3-foot seas. There were no reported storms in the area, according to the Coast Guard.

Lesseig told deputies Rydberg had manual labor jobs but she is not sure for whom he worked. One of his Key West neighbors, Tony Webb, said Rydberg taught Sunday school but was not sure for which church.

It was not clear at press time whether the Cuban government returned Rydberg’s body back to his family.
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Old 30-05-2013, 15:50   #84
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Where is that vocal minority? Did I miss something? No one blamed the state for this at all.
I was referring to those who question why the boat and occupant were not found earlier, whose objections were advanced as the rationale for mandating AIS for all vessels.
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Old 30-05-2013, 16:02   #85
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I was referring to those who question why the boat and occupant were not found earlier

There is a big difference between questioning why that boat could not be found earlier and "a vocal minority who blame the state for this incident".

In the world of cyberspace one needs to be careful with words, unless you are using them simply to spark irrational arguments (trolling).

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Old 30-05-2013, 16:24   #86
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

I used those words to summarise someone else's irrational justification for an inappropriate solution, and expose it as irrational.
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Old 30-05-2013, 16:46   #87
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

Irrational to have AIS mandatory?
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Old 30-05-2013, 16:48   #88
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

It would be irrational of the state to mandate AIS to protect themselves from being criticised for how long it took to find this guy
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Old 30-05-2013, 17:00   #89
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Irrational to have AIS mandatory?
Yes. Only a handful of people die offshore or in coastal waters of the USA each year on boats over 30 feet. The vast majority of deaths are from people falling out of small, open fishing boats and canoes on inland waters in perfect weather--people drown. Mandatory lifejacket wear on small boats would save hundreds of lives each year. Mandatory AIS might save a life once in awhile. Banning all alcohol on boats would also save hundreds of lives every year. Be careful what you wish for.
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Old 30-05-2013, 17:05   #90
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

I'm asking this because I don't understand how a SAR is accomplished.

The question I have is if the government is capable of facial recognition of a subject on a non-descrip hillside in Afghanistan from 200 miles up, how can they not find a sailboat in a 200 mile diameter circle?

Before anybody crucifies me for asking this, I not on a fault finding mission nor am I on the "Dammit, I'm a taxpayer. I pay for these people to look after my butt." bandwagon. I'm just trying to get a handle on what resources are called into play in these situations.
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