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Old 30-05-2013, 08:49   #61
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pirate Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I agree with you Nick.



I think you need to play with an AIS.
The base stations in the USA track AIS for a LONG distance, I would sugest 100nms. Definitly cover waters to Cuba.

VHF/AIS is line of sight, a plane would have it for a huge distance.

The resistance against AIS amazes me. Only by people who dont have it, or havent sailed with it. It should be manditory for boats sailing in the ocean, just like EPIRB. Only then will most get the idea of how totally essential it is.

EPIRB/AIS/RADAR/VHF/SSB/LIFERAFT all mandatory potential life savers....?
That's me and a few others buga'd....
Could buy my boat twice with that cost... definitely would clear a lot of us off the water...
Some might say.. 'That's no bad thing'
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Old 30-05-2013, 09:20   #62
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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It should be manditory for boats sailing in the ocean, just like EPIRB.
Well, I wouldn't make it mandatory (and EPIRB isn't for U.S. boats), but it is certainly a good idea. No doubt that it will help those trying to find you in an emergency. Still, my libertarian-leaning brain says that it should be a personal choice, as should things like seat belts and motorcycle helmets.

If you don't use these things, and you don't get found (or your brains get squished in a motorcycle crash, etc.), then you have no one to blame but yourself. And that's okay with me.
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Old 30-05-2013, 09:28   #63
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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If you don't use these things, and you don't get found ... then you have no one to blame but yourself. And that's okay with me.
But thats not what happens. Scroll back through this thread and note the posts criticizing the lack of success by the emergency services.

They want their safety belligerently ensured but without the price tag or 'loss' of 'liberty'.


Being dead is not liberty.
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Old 30-05-2013, 09:40   #64
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

Honestly, I'm not sure how an AIS would have helped in this case, except find the victim's body a little early -- by the time they would have got there.

AIS is certainly a nice have, though. As 'in range' means it would show up on local ships and SAR plane radar in the area, not just shore-side.
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Old 30-05-2013, 09:50   #65
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

EPIRB, AIS, PLB, SPOT and any other acronym is not a replacement for intelligence or responsibility.

7 "P's":
Proper
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Performance

Yes, accidents do happen, but better preparedness greatly lessens the instance. I am always amazed by those who think it is someone else's (or some gizmo's) responsibility to bail their ass out when THEY screw up!
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Old 30-05-2013, 09:54   #66
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

A SAR plane has VHF range for many hundreds of miles. The VHF traffic station that once (good old days) operated from Saba, serviced shipping for the whole East Caribbean; their antenna on top of the mountain.

And that is without the satellite AIS tracking which is fully operational on a global level.

It's easy to come up with excuses but it is very hard to come up with valid ones except the cost and rather be lost instead of found. I think Ray's family would disagree with that and so will most relatives and friends of sailors lost at sea.

I would go as far to state that not having the tracking device aboard to be found is egoistic.
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Old 30-05-2013, 10:57   #67
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Also, another thing is that a fairly common emergency situation is losing the mast and the VHF antenna goes with it. Sure, AIS is another way to be found, but I'm not sure its function provides that much more than a standard VHF radio and an EPIRB.
Best argument for having AIS on a pushpit mounted antenna, trade range for redundancy
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Old 30-05-2013, 11:02   #68
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An emergency VHF antenna costs a couple of dollars. Even a piece of wire will work good enough to talk to the SAR plane, as will every handheld.
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Old 30-05-2013, 11:20   #69
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Scroll back through this thread and note the posts criticizing the lack of success by the emergency services.
I'm not sure I would categorize the comments as criticisms. At least not the one I made. More of surprise than criticism. I just thought there were more resources being used than there seems to really be.

I was told once about a guy that went to Cuba with his sailboat. Upon his return he got arrested. In court they showed an aerial photo of him on his boat at the marina in Havana. I don't even remember who told me that story, but it just led me to believe that especially that part of the Gulf Stream was under more surveillance than I believe it to be now.

I don't expect anyone but CapnGeo to come save me!

I'm counting on you George!!!! LOL.
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Old 30-05-2013, 12:11   #70
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

An EPIRB is designed to locate someone in trouble. AIS is NOT.

The coast guard could give out free EPIRBs and I'll bet it would save them money given the cost of fuel for a helicopter in a single SAR.
Here in Sac, the firestation will loan lifejackets free to boaters.
To think cost doesn't matter makes sense to one with a 64ft boat,
perhaps it matters to the 23ft boat guy wanting to go from seattle to portland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
A SAR plane has VHF range for many hundreds of miles. The VHF traffic station that once (good old days) operated from Saba, serviced shipping for the whole East Caribbean; their antenna on top of the mountain.

And that is without the satellite AIS tracking which is fully operational on a global level.

It's easy to come up with excuses but it is very hard to come up with valid ones except the cost and rather be lost instead of found. I think Ray's family would disagree with that and so will most relatives and friends of sailors lost at sea.

I would go as far to state that not having the tracking device aboard to be found is egoistic.
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Old 30-05-2013, 12:15   #71
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pirate Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I would go as far to state that not having the tracking device aboard to be found is egoistic.
Ahhh... Nick... you've got me sussed....
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Old 30-05-2013, 12:27   #72
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An EPIRB is designed to locate someone in trouble. AIS is NOT.

The coast guard could give out free EPIRBs and I'll bet it would save them money given the cost of fuel for a helicopter in a single SAR.
Here in Sac, the firestation will loan lifejackets free to boaters.
To think cost doesn't matter makes sense to one with a 64ft boat,
perhaps it matters to the 23ft boat guy wanting to go from seattle to portland.
I clearly stated that added cost is the only valid argument against an AIS transponder. Why do you confirm that and then attack me on this? You should disagree with me before you attack

If you want to be found by SAR but can't afford a transponder, then stop going out to bars for a month... or whatever else money goes to. If that is not possible, take a weekend job for a month. Me, with my 64' boat, also had to earn every dime I have with hard work. I was the 23ft boat guy too, make no mistake, I know exactly how it's like.
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Old 30-05-2013, 12:49   #73
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I don't expect anyone but CapnGeo to come save me!
Don't worry Mike, I would come to the rescue too--just might take me a while to get there from here.
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Old 30-05-2013, 12:56   #74
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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guy wanting to go from seattle to portland.
Or along the Florida Keys.
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Old 30-05-2013, 13:07   #75
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Don't worry Mike, I would come to the rescue too--just might take me a while to get there from here.
Don't say that! I just looked at your profile pic. I am tempted to go missing on purpose now! LOL.

P.S. CapnGeo is one of my best buddies and on my list of emergency contacts if ever I hit the big red button. Also one of the best people you could ever go sailing, or just about any adventure with. He is a man of many talents!
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