Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

You miss just enough to get it wrong every tie. It's quite remarkable.

Oh Raku, I had so much hope to put a smile on your face with that "GoPro on your head" remark, that the failure to do so is killing me ! I'm sure others had a smile though...

It can't be, I know, but do you need me to tell you that you are confusing attempts at humorous posts with lack of intelligence? We all well know what triplines are, but while we enjoy your repeated explanations of it and might provoke that a bit now and then, we also try to explain you that the trip line wouldn't work during bad conditions. We don't do that because we try to get you mad, we do that because a life of sailing makes us believe so. Plus we really want to see the video; if possible with a second camera looking aft from your transom in addition to the one on your head

Let me tell you what: next winter I will test this AND put the video on-line, how about that!?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Oh Raku, I had so much hope to put a smile on your face with that "GoPro on your head" remark, that the failure to do so is killing me ! I'm sure others had a smile though...

It can't be, I know, but do you need me to tell you that you are confusing attempts at humorous posts with lack of intelligence? We all well know what triplines are, but while we enjoy your repeated explanations of it and might provoke that a bit now and then, we also try to explain you that the trip line wouldn't work during bad conditions. We don't do that because we try to get you mad, we do that because a life of sailing makes us believe so. Plus we really want to see the video; if possible with a second camera looking aft from your transom in addition to the one on your head

Let me tell you what: next winter I will test this AND put the video on-line, how about that!?

Jedi, I didn't read most of your post.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

We all well know what triplines are, but while we enjoy your repeated explanations of it and might provoke that a bit now and then, we also try to explain you that the trip line wouldn't work during bad conditions. We don't do that because we try to get you mad, we do that because a life of sailing makes us believe so. Plus we really want to see the video; if possible with a second camera looking aft from your transom in addition to the one on your head

Right you are.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Jedi, I didn't read most of your post.

That is a shame as I was as sincere, honest, and trying to be helpful as can be. The nasty way you respond makes me feel silly for that now and I don't think the attitude it shows belongs here. It is not seamanlike at all.

[Sailor_Hutch]

Seems like the problem starts with people avoiding the use of safety gear/lines, mainly as a matter of convenience, and then going MOB. What could be done to make various safety systems less inconvenient, so people would never be without them?

[David_Old_Jersey]

I haven't read most of this thread, but can take a WAG at the contents ...........

.....for me the lessons learned are:-

a) don't get sick, especially if a solo sailor.
b) don't fall overboard (tether or not), especially if a solo sailor.
c) if you want to be rescued (from events or self) then need to put some effort (and likely also cash) in beforehand to up the odds of that working out well.

and

d) if yer want to be "free" and self reliant and to head out to sea then yer need to be prepared to suck up the consequences, cos' ain't nothing and no one (not even da gubberment) can keep you 100% "Safe". and also polite to warm up any relatives or friends that will be having an attack of the vapours if things go off plan.

Whilst desperately seeking to stay with the "play nice" rule, I can't help but say that the comments about fitting "safety" equipment in the expectation that folks can, will and should be rescued truly despairing .

[foolishsailor]

Hmmm,

Ye didnt heed the last warning about playing nice.

Perhaps you will heed this one - if the personal back and forth doesnt stop and the thread get back on track it will be closed.

This thread seems to have lived its natrual lifespan...

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

Seems like the problem starts with people avoiding the use of safety gear/lines, mainly as a matter of convenience, and then going MOB. What could be done to make various safety systems less inconvenient, so people would never be without them?

If you go back to the original post (the drift has been almost as far as the poor, dead sailor) you will remember that the sailor was on a tether. And he had an epirb.

All this nonsense about a trip line dragged behind a boat was done on another thread. It is just a repeat. Though I am also guilty of saying something too. I just won't learn.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Hmmm,

Ye didnt heed the last warning about playing nice.

Perhaps you will heed this one - if the personal back and forth doesnt stop and the thread get back on track it will be closed.

This thread seems to have lived its natrual lifespan...

Chill babies....

A few thoughts to roll the ball a bit..

Big one..

• The amount of data on people falling off boats is so vanishingly small that there is just no way of know if a rope off the back or whatever helps or not.
  We don't know, we guess but have completely no way of knowing for sure.

And ..

• Personally I strongly suspect that having no "safety" rope trailing off the back of the boat makes me hang on tighter and be safer in the bigger picture.
  But don't know for sure.
  Because no one does.

So , pointless thread really, not enough data, nobody knows.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by conachair

Chill babies....

A few thoughts to roll the ball a bit..

Big one..

• The amount of data on people falling off boats is so vanishingly small that there is just no way of know if a rope off the back or whatever helps or not.
  We don't know, we guess but have completely no way of knowing for sure.

And ..

• Personally I strongly suspect that having no "safety" rope trailing off the back of the boat makes me hang on tighter and be safer in the bigger picture.
  But don't know for sure.
  Because no one does.

So , pointless thread really, not enough data, nobody knows.

But you could, and quite easily.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

But you could, and quite easily.

Sorry,
Could what?

[Kettlewell]

Is there any update on what has become of Jay's remains and those of his boat?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by conachair

Sorry,
Could what?

You could test whether a trip line would work on your boat, and under what circumstances, quite easily.

See, the discussion has actually been useful. We saw Tor's page (those of us who went there, anyway). It's been posited that it won't work well in rough weather, but that is easily tested also the next time any of us are sailing in rough weather.

Personally I think the idea that a trip line would give one a false sense of security specious. I think anyone intelligent enough to sail would know what "last chance" means, and would realize that if they were hurt badly while falling off the boat it wouldn't matter how long the trip line was. For instance, my acquaintance who broke his leg so badly boarding a boat couldn't have swum 20 feet to save himself. "Stuff" happens.

But I can test how my boat handles a trip line, and I will. With a perforated toe rail, I can place a snap block or two to guide it, even. I think that would really help with a wheel.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

You could test whether a trip line would work on your boat, and under what circumstances, quite easily.

See, the discussion has actually been useful. We saw Tor's page (those of us who went there, anyway). It's been posited that it won't work well in rough weather, but that is easily tested also the next time any of us are sailing in rough weather.

Personally I think the idea that a trip line would give one a false sense of security specious. I think anyone intelligent enough to sail would know what "last chance" means, and would realize that if they were hurt badly while falling off the boat it wouldn't matter how long the trip line was. For instance, my acquaintance who broke his leg so badly boarding a boat couldn't have swum 20 feet to save himself. "Stuff" happens.

But I can test how my boat handles a trip line, and I will. With a perforated toe rail, I can place a snap block or two to guide it, even. I think that would really help with a wheel.

Ah, Okay, see now.
I suspect we may not ever come to agreement on this. You don't know if the knowledge of a "last chance" will make people take that extra chance.

[Travelnik]

Raku,

I first heard about the trip/drag line in Tony Meisel's Singlehanding book written in 1986 or so, and thought it had merit.

Foolishsailor had a good idea with having the line disconnect the clutch to disengage the engine. Falling overboard all alone and being dragged by your boat under engine power at close to hull speed would require a pretty good effort to pull along 200 +/- feet of poly rope.

You could also think of some way to rig the line to a disconnect/kill switch for the engine and autopilot.

The wise guys here do have a point with the video though. If it works, you have the proof. If it doesn't, then you have something to look at to analyze the faults, and maybe come up with a solution that could save you or someone else someday.

Just my 2¢.