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Old 01-06-2013, 14:10   #181
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Okay but if you can't free climb your anchor line really doubt your climbing a knotted rope while moving through the water. Start with easy first.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:11   #182
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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With all of the correct devices,Epirbs, Ais etc etc, you can be found with some ease in a fairly short period.

The Australian Search systems have even rescued people 2000nm from our coast line in the southern ocean, Tony Bullimore was in an upturned Yacht for a few days but us Aussies saved him (twice actually) this rescue was carried out by our navy (too far for rescue planes to even fly).New Zealand have also had similar rescues.

This guy was inside his upturned boat until rescuers arrived on the scene.

I don't Remember the exact details but it was reported in our news at the time and it cost us many Thousands of dollars.

So the long and short is IF you carry the right equipment in areas around the world that have rescue systems you will be found and mostly alive.
(we have many lose of life incidents as well in Australia but none to my knowledge where the use of epirbs AIs etc have been able to be activated and used as intended.)
Anyone remember Rockin Robin? June 1990, NE Australian coast. Fixed in my memory as I spent that entire week of precious holiday time on a tiny trailerable boat at anchor in the vicinity, waiting for the blow to subside.

The long and short of it is an epirb was activated, the boat found by the RAAF, two liferafts were dropped as the crew had managed to shred theirs. Four people got into one of the life rafts. They were never seen again.

No guarantees. Nor should there be.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:15   #183
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Which is why a pfd should mandatory.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:17   #184
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Which is why a pfd should mandatory.
The liferaft they were in was never found.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:19   #185
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I'm not surprised to hear that, but I know how to make it more fun -- have the storm coming out of the north and put yourself in the Gulfstream.

In fact i suspect those storms are more common on the East coast than the West.
Ya I have been through that, luckily hiding in a hurricane hole though. but listening to the CG trying to save boats on fire in 40ft waves with winds gusting in the 80mph did not sound fun. Lot's of rescues that day.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:23   #186
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Should have had ais equipped pfd with strobes and spot, flare kit glo stick etc....
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:31   #187
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

Raku,

I just swept back through here and saw your post. That's not it because the Coast Guard "quickly" found the EPIRB. So, to me, there's the question, how did it go overboard? A mystery....

Ann
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:34   #188
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I'm having difficulty understanding the sea conditions in the Caribbean. I am reading that if you have 6-9 foot seas that is considered pretty duanting. Yet growing up in the PNW, on the coast, 50-60 footers were common in winter storm seas and we went commercial fishing in those conditions. What is different in the Gulf of Mexico and adjacent waters? Phil
Coming from the San Franicsco I was just as baffeled as you... I was used to big rolling waves with a long duration between waves. Here is more like sailing on the SF Bay during summer.

Sailing from Panama to Florida ended up being the toughest part of our 9500 NM trip. Partly because the weather has been highly unusual this year.

The seas here tend to stack up and normally run about 3-4 feet at 8-10 seconds in the normal trades... If the winds increase over 25 the seas peak at about 10-12 feet and are 4-6 seconds apart.

During our travels it seemed the wind waves and the swell were always about 45 degres off each othereverytime we moved after a wind event... So we would get beam wind waves and quartering seas... It would tke as much as 2-3 days to seatle back down. It sucked!

Them to get run over by that squall as I approached the USA for the first time in 32 months... Well I was not a happy camper!
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:40   #189
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

Every patch of ocean has times when it gets rough, maybe in different ways, but rough. I have done that route between Ft. Myers and Key West a bunch of times in winds up to and beyond what was apparently out there that night. There were probably short, steep seas, but they should not have been dangerous for a 39-foot tri. However, a short, steep wave like that can be perfect for throwing someone off their feet, hitting their head, or maybe sending them over the side, particularly when someone is tired, maybe worried about hitting one of those towers in the vicinity, etc. You don't need enormous storm seas to cause trouble.

I'm still very curious as to what theory explains his ending up where he did. As I have written previously, the wind was out of the NW when the EPIRB went off, which would have set the boat down to the SE towards the Keys--I suspect no matter what the current was doing, especially with the sails up.

Does anybody have a subscription to KeysNews so you can check out the latest article?

Quote:
Saturday, June 1, 2013
Body found on boat in Cuba
It may be missing live-aboard man
BY ADAM LINHARDT Citizen Staff
alinhardt@keysnews.com
The Key West live-aboard sailboater who went missing earlier this month reportedly was found dead in his boat on the Cuban coast this week.

U.S. State Department spokesman Noel Clay in Washington, D.C., said Friday that officials were awaiting formal identification of the body, but two other government sources who wished to remain anonymous confirmed the remains of 40-year-...

For the complete article, please pick up a copy of The Citizen for this day or purchase this day's electronic edition at http://secure.floridakeys.com/keysnews/enews. Home Delivery & Electronic Edition subscibers to The Citizen may access this article, once logged in to keysnews.com, at no charge. If you forget your password, please call us at 305-292-7777, ext. 4.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:43   #190
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Should have had ais equipped pfd with strobes and spot, flare kit glo stick etc....
Yes, that would improve the odds of survival, but how many people would benefit from this?

Perhaps a few simple things like not smoking, keeping our weight down, having a healthy food intake, walking an hour a day etc may do more to increase life span?

But, hey, that puts the responsibility on our own shoulders doesn't it, so we wouldn't want to consider that! Instead let's just throw a bit of money and add a few more regulations to possibly help give us a higher life expectancy.
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Old 01-06-2013, 15:32   #191
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

Another thing to consider when thinking about regaining the boat whilst underway: the speed through the water not only makes it very hard to get back to the boat, but as you are trying to climb up -- ladder, knotted rope, whatever -- the water rushing by keeps you from getting oriented correctly for the task.

Similar case of personal experience: Years ago Ann and I were snorkeling in the channel between Taveuni and the Fijian mainland. We had anchored the dinghy in around 15 feet or water, and started exploring. It was slack water, and we didn't really consider the tidal flow that was gonna happen soon, and set off. Very fortunately, it was in what was to become the upstream direction, for in a shockingly short time we had on the order of two knots of current sweeping us back to the dink. We managed to grab onto it and then attempted to get back in... something we did with speed and relative grace in those younger years. To our dismay, the current kept us from getting into the vertical orientation that precedes launching up and over the gunnel (this was a Mk II Zodiac, about 12 feet long). In short, neither of us could get back in! After some kinda excited thought, I worked myself out along the anchor rode and tripped the anchor. Now the dink was floating along with the current and there was no relative speed differential -- getting in was then easy.

This isn't exactly analogous to clambering up the transom of a moving yacht, or over the side, but it is an indication that static exercises will not accurately mock up a real overboard self recovery.

So, stay on board!

Cheers,

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Old 01-06-2013, 15:55   #192
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Rescue swam a small child through relative calm water. Incredible how draining that was. Adrenaline was okay but prolonged swimming and supporting it was incredible how fatigued my muscles were. Maybe I didn't do it right. I remember thinking I can do this but **** I'm hurting and I'm not high enough to breath okay. Never mind the friggin jelly fish that caused this to begin with.
The drag of even a few knots would surprise most people. Why I suggest you start off with a climb of your anchor rhode.
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Old 01-06-2013, 16:22   #193
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pirate Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Rescue swam a small child through relative calm water. Incredible how draining that was. Adrenaline was okay but prolonged swimming and supporting it was incredible how fatigued my muscles were. Maybe I didn't do it right. I remember thinking I can do this but **** I'm hurting and I'm not high enough to breath okay. Never mind the friggin jelly fish that caused this to begin with.
The drag of even a few knots would surprise most people. Why I suggest you start off with a climb of your anchor rhode.
LOLOL....
Yup.... seems like only yesterday I swam competitively... Wiesmuller, the original 'Tarzan' was my hero.. these days I'm lucky if I can mange 25 metres flat out before hitting the pain barrier...
I lost the 'Edge' a few years ago and its been a slow slide down ever since... no more deep breathing exercises... just small lazy breathing.. except when its nicotine.. crap maintenance basically...
So sudden exertion burns up the oxygen pretty fast and the ache begins..
The hell of being a lazy ole buga...

Can still do the anchor chain tho'....
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Old 01-06-2013, 16:28   #194
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Climbing my anchor line? That wouldn't be anything like pulling myself up from figure-eight loop to figure-eight loop with gloves on. And, when I tested this on my previous boat, it caused the boat to heave itself to. This is something that seems to have been lost in the discussion. If the boat is heaved to, you have a much better chance of getting aboard.

I'll be testing this with another person on my boat and a second boat nearby. It will probably be an informal club event. I'll be very safe, but I'm not going to try to climb my anchor line. I would never do that. I would go to the back of the boat and pull the ladder down. It's a very good ladder and easily deployed from the water.

I'll leave climbing the anchor rode, an entirely different kind of task, to the gorillas.
May I suggest filming this attempt with some GoPro cameras and posting that footage to YouTube?! Not just for the amusement factor, but also to make it easy to point to in case more members think this is a viable technique
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Old 01-06-2013, 17:02   #195
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Very fortunately, it was in what was to become the upstream direction, for in a shockingly short time we had on the order of two knots of current sweeping us back to the dink. We managed to grab onto it and then attempted to get back in...

Jim
Lucky to be alive then I guess.

Only two knots.

My boys think that they can overcome 4 knots with ease. I hope to give them a try one day. (They smirked at me the other day)

Sorry for continuing this silly, far off topic, point.
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