Masthead Tricolour?

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

Most if not all the AIS I have seen have a menu (I hate menu's). which include type of vessel. Underway, moored, anchored ect,

Some I pick up just say yacht. So "Gender Non Specific". works

The GME unit I have there is an earthing issue if you keep it connected to a device on boat 12v power via the admin USB cable. Plus I have it built into a space behind a cupboard, so it'd be a royal pain to try and change regularly.

Mike

[kmacdonald]

There is no regulation for pleasure boats to have or use AIS never mind use it correctly. Don't overthink this issue.

[Ambler]

For now in MOST countries. It is mandatory in some Asian countries I hear. But the issue could arrise (in future) of at least using your transponder correctly if you choose to install one and turn it on.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Interestingly, a friend of ours was recently in a collision. They were coming into an anchorage (not a 'designated anchorage' as defined in the rules) under sail, and a gust caused them to round up and move in an unexpected manner (I won't get into a discussion of the seamanship here). As a result they ran into an anchored boat at pretty much full speed. There was significant damage to both vessels.

The insurance companies got to arguing (of course) and in the end allocated 20% fault to the anchored boat because they were not displaying the day shape (black ball). Not sure I would interpret COLREGS exactly that way, but that's how two major insurance carriers settled an actual case based on COLREGS.

For the anchored boat they now have a claim on their insurance, which means their premiums will rise, all because they were sitting, doing nothing on their boat at anchor without a day shape displayed.

What country did this occur in?

There is nothing definitive about the COLREGS that comes out of two insurance companies agreeing on a settlement. This could have turned out much differently in an Admiralty Court.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by MLOI

A follow on (stupid) thought.
Should we be changing our AIS boat type when we turn the engine on?
......

There is no requirement to make a change to the vessel type within AIS. It is still a type sailing vessel even if it is motoring. In class A AIS the added field Status is available for indicating underway using engine, anchored, etc.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Paul L

There is no requirement to make a change to the vessel type within AIS. It is still a type sailing vessel even if it is motoring. In class A AIS the added field Status is available for indicating underway using engine, anchored, etc.

This is the way I've interpreted things as well. I also note a surprising number of commercial vessels with obviously wrong status and destination info posted... to say nothing of the ones "drifting" and claiming NUC status.

In most cases, these flaws cause little concern, IE when I see a vessel making good 13 knots and miles offshore displaying "anchored", with my long years of experience and high intelligence I'm able to deduce that he ain't really anchored and take appropriate actions.

I kinda suspect that many deck officers, when they see any class B signals, assume that it is operated by a WAFI and are duly warned of unpredictable moves. I do try to not substantiate that view!

Jim

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

.....

In most cases, these flaws cause little concern, IE when I see a vessel making good 13 knots and miles offshore displaying "anchored", with my long years of experience and high intelligence I'm able to deduce that he ain't really anchored and take appropriate actions.
.....

Yeah, but think of the insurance claim you would have if you motored over his bow and he sunk you.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MLOI

A follow on (stupid) thought.
Should we be changing our AIS boat type when we turn the engine on?

One of the things I still get an embarrassing thrill from is when I see on AIS that a large ship has altered course to avoid me. I find it cool that a 20 thousand ton ship changes course to avoid my 7 ton sailboat.
Normally you can see the course change has happened while we are still many miles apart - way before they would have been able to see an inverted cone signifying that I'm motoring.
So I am unfairly claiming the stand on role via AIS, when in reality I should be the one giving way.

Mike

Not if you have Class B! Class B does not broadcast nav status. Vessel type is NOT nav status.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

There is no requirement to make a change to the vessel type within AIS. It is still a type sailing vessel even if it is motoring. In class A AIS the added field Status is available for indicating underway using engine, anchored, etc.

Exactly. Nav Status and Vessel Type are two different things. Vessel Type is part of static data, and there "Sailing Vessel" only means a vessel CAPABLE of sailing, not necessarily one which is under sail or even under way at all. Same thing, incidentally, with fishing boats. You don't give way to fishing boats just because the vessel type is "Fishing". Such vessels are ordinary motor powered vessels when they are not actually engaged in fishing (we will ignore the permanently welded on "Engaged in Fishing" day shapes! ). Class A sets send nav status as part of dynamic data. The possible values are:

0 = under way using engine 1 = at anchor
2 = not under command
3 = restricted maneuverability
4 = constrained by her draught
5 = moored
6 = aground
7 = engaged in fishing
8 = under way sailing
9 = reserved for future amendment of navigational status for ships carrying DG, HS, or MP, or IMO hazard or pollutant category C, high-speed craft (HSC)
10 = reserved for future amendment of navigational status for ships carrying dangerous goods (DG), harmful substances (HS) or marine pollutants (MP), or IMO hazard or pollutant category A, wing in ground (WIG)
11 = power-driven vessel towing astern (regional use)
12 = power-driven vessel pushing ahead or towing alongside (regional use)
13 = reserved for future use
14 = AIS-SART (active), MOB-AIS, EPIRB-AIS
15 = undefined = default (also used by AIS-SART, MOB-AIS and EPIRB-AIS under test)


Class B sets do not broadcast anything about nav status.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by MLOI

A follow on (stupid) thought.
Should we be changing our AIS boat type when we turn the engine on?

One of the things I still get an embarrassing thrill from is when I see on AIS that a large ship has altered course to avoid me. I find it cool that a 20 thousand ton ship changes course to avoid my 7 ton sailboat.
Normally you can see the course change has happened while we are still many miles apart - way before they would have been able to see an inverted cone signifying that I'm motoring.
So I am unfairly claiming the stand on role via AIS, when in reality I should be the one giving way.

Mike

I don’t think you should change it, it would cause confusion, maybe. He sees MV on the AIS yet looks out and there is a sailboat, so he keeps looking for the vessel he has missed, or just as likely he thinks another blistering idiot recreational type, well at least he turned the thing on.
Along that line of thinking, I bet they change course way out cause
1. If done way out it’s only a tiny change
2. To keep well away from the idiots, cause they are capable of anything, and you wouldn’t believe amount of paperwork when you run one over

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t think you should change it,

Aah.. I wasn't actually serious. (hence the "stupid" idea comment -or you could just assume that as I'm Australian, nothing is serious)

I was more interested in the conversation about why the thing that no-one I have seen use (ie day shapes) we take really seriously, but the thing that gets used all the time (AIS) we are quite slack about.

I really hope that AIS gets built into VHF radios and becomes ubiquitous... and Day shapes get forgotten. If you need a day shape to realise that I'm anchored, you probably shouldn't be on the water.

Mike

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MLOI

Aah.. I wasn't actually serious. (hence the "stupid" idea comment -or you could just assume that as I'm Australian, nothing is serious)

I was more interested in the conversation about why the thing that no-one I have seen use (ie day shapes) we take really seriously, but the thing that gets used all the time (AIS) we are quite slack about.

I really hope that AIS gets built into VHF radios and becomes ubiquitous... and Day shapes get forgotten. If you need a day shape to realise that I'm anchored, you probably shouldn't be on the water.

Mike

To be quite clear about it, not changing the static data regarding vessel type is not "being slack". You must NOT change the static data on vessel type -- the vessel type does not change with different nav status, and it would be wrong to change it. You are confusing vessel type with nav status. A Class B AIS set has no way of communicating nav status.

As to getting rid of day shapes -- it would be nice, as they are a PITA. But it would require not only AIS sets capable of communicating nav status, but also a substantial revision of the way the Rules are designed. You are obligated to make clear what your nav status is, without AIS. On commercial vessels, AIS is not even the primary means of determining collision risks -- that is still radar and ARPA. AIS is still just a supplement to other methods.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Paul L

What country did this occur in?

There is nothing definitive about the COLREGS that comes out of two insurance companies agreeing on a settlement. This could have turned out much differently in an Admiralty Court.

The collision occurred in Fiji. Sailing boat was French registered, anchored boat British. Both insurance companies major European firms.

Not arguing it is definitive COLREGS interpretation, rather, it is a real-world situation many of us are more likely to encounter than Admiralty Court. For (pulling a number out of a hat) 90% of any problems like this that we may have it is far more likely that our insurance carriers will settle the matter than we end up in court.

And, as kmacdonald said, they then get to raise the rates on both boats. The sailor was expecting it - he didn't keep control of his vessel and ran into another boat. Pretty sure the anchored folks were not expecting an insurance claim and all the grief that goes with it.

[micah719]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

On commercial vessels, AIS is not even the primary means of determining collision risks -- that is still radar and ARPA. AIS is still just a supplement to other methods.

Pardon mon ignorance, mon ami.......what is ARPA?

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by micah719

Pardon mon ignorance, mon ami.......what is ARPA?

Since I happen to be online at the moment...

Automatic Radar Plotting Aids

Those fancy radar displays that tag targets with things like course and speed, keep them identified, etc. - As opposed to the static/stupid displays we generally use where all interpretation (and memory of what you saw a few moments ago) is in our heads.