Masthead Tricolour?

[kerrydeare]

Originally Posted by Suijin

My general rule of thumb is that if I'm within sight of land lights at night, I run deck level lights. If I'm offshore far enough I use the masthead.

We've wired the lights with a two way (?) switch: up means the tricolor is lit, down means the lower nav lights are on, and middle means no running lights. It's a simple matter to look at the switch and decide which combination is appropriate in a given setting.

Meanwhile although there's no argument about the importance of correct lighting, it's always the humans who are responsible for staying alive, not the lights.

[rognvald]

I agree with Pinguino. And, who wants to climb the mast to change bulbs? Not my cup of tea. Good luck and safe sailing.

[Quebramar]

Originally Posted by MLOI

(...)

It is a pity that the colregs differ so markedly from the reality of common usage - if a regulation is such that 90+% of a group of users are in conflict with it, it would seem that it is the regulation which needs changing. Day shapes on sailing boats is a good example, we saw exactly one anchored boat in 6 months with a black ball (friends of yours from Eden I belIeve). And I have never seen anyone flying an inverted cone.

(...)

Belgian authorities do not laugh about it. May be linked to the rather busy waters along the Belgian coast. Until the port control office in Nieuwpoort got closed, any sailboat with water coming out of the exhaust pipe and not showing the inverted cone would run the risk to be fined... now less than half the sailboats still show them I think.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Quebramar

Belgian authorities do not laugh about it. May be linked to the rather busy waters along the Belgian coast. Until the port control office in Nieuwpoort got closed, any sailboat with water coming out of the exhaust pipe and not showing the inverted cone would run the risk to be fined... now less than half the sailboats still show them I think.

Not just Belgians. The Germans enforce the motoring cone requirement rigidly, and will hand out a fine on the spot -- no warning citations. The Dutch are supposed to enforce the requirement from time to time, as do the Swedes.

I admit to not using mine every single time I motor sail, but I try to always do it if it's more than a brief session or if a crossing situation is likely to arise. In such cases it's only fair -- it seems to me -- to give correct information about your nav status to the other vessel, so he knows what to do.

[Dsanduril]

Interestingly, a friend of ours was recently in a collision. They were coming into an anchorage (not a 'designated anchorage' as defined in the rules) under sail, and a gust caused them to round up and move in an unexpected manner (I won't get into a discussion of the seamanship here). As a result they ran into an anchored boat at pretty much full speed. There was significant damage to both vessels.

The insurance companies got to arguing (of course) and in the end allocated 20% fault to the anchored boat because they were not displaying the day shape (black ball). Not sure I would interpret COLREGS exactly that way, but that's how two major insurance carriers settled an actual case based on COLREGS.

For the anchored boat they now have a claim on their insurance, which means their premiums will rise, all because they were sitting, doing nothing on their boat at anchor without a day shape displayed.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Interestingly, a friend of ours was recently in a collision. They were coming into an anchorage (not a 'designated anchorage' as defined in the rules) under sail, and a gust caused them to round up and move in an unexpected manner (I won't get into a discussion of the seamanship here). As a result they ran into an anchored boat at pretty much full speed. There was significant damage to both vessels.

The insurance companies got to arguing (of course) and in the end allocated 20% fault to the anchored boat because they were not displaying the day shape (black ball). Not sure I would interpret COLREGS exactly that way, but that's how two major insurance carriers settled an actual case based on COLREGS.

For the anchored boat they now have a claim on their insurance, which means their premiums will rise, all because they were sitting, doing nothing on their boat at anchor without a day shape displayed.

The way you describe the facts, the case sounds like a miscarriage of justice, since confusion over the anchored boat's nav status was not in any way involved in the chain of causation.

But we shouldn't be surprised. If you are violating some rule, when something bad happens, even if the violation didn't cause that bad thing to happen, the chances of getting screwed over that violation are very high. Another good reason to follow the rules.

[Adelie]

I would have apprortioned 10% to the anchored boat but I don’t think 20% is too unreasonable.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The way you describe the facts, the case sounds like a miscarriage of justice, since confusion over the anchored boat's nav status was not in any way involved in the chain of causation.

But we shouldn't be surprised. If you are violating some rule, when something bad happens, even if the violation didn't cause that bad thing to happen, the chances of getting screwed over that violation are very high. Another good reason to follow the rules.

That's pretty much how I see it, and how the owner of the sailing boat sees it (he knew the other boat was anchored even if there was no black ball). He was utterly surprised when the insurance companies came back and told him he was 80% at fault (fully expected 100%). But, the insurance companies argued that absent the ball the other vessel was underway and thus obligated to take evasive action to avoid a collision. In failing to take evasive action they were determined to be partially at fault.

[MLOI]

A follow on (stupid) thought.
Should we be changing our AIS boat type when we turn the engine on?

One of the things I still get an embarrassing thrill from is when I see on AIS that a large ship has altered course to avoid me. I find it cool that a 20 thousand ton ship changes course to avoid my 7 ton sailboat.
Normally you can see the course change has happened while we are still many miles apart - way before they would have been able to see an inverted cone signifying that I'm motoring.
So I am unfairly claiming the stand on role via AIS, when in reality I should be the one giving way.

Mike

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by MLOI

A follow on (stupid) thought.
Should we be changing our AIS boat type when we turn the engine on?

One of the things I still get an embarrassing thrill from is when I see on AIS that a large ship has altered course to avoid me. I find it cool that a 20 thousand ton ship changes course to avoid my 7 ton sailboat.
Normally you can see the course change has happened while we are still many miles apart - way before they would have been able to see an inverted cone signifying that I'm motoring.
So I am unfairly claiming the stand on role via AIS, when in reality I should be the one giving way.

Mike

Not stupid very sensible
If you are under power you should update your AIS. you are not a sailing vessel if you are using the engine. (to propel the boat.)
Its just like showing the correct lights.
however how many boats don't bother to update they are at anchor or tied to the dock.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Interestingly, a friend of ours was recently in a collision. They were coming into an anchorage (not a 'designated anchorage' as defined in the rules) under sail, and a gust caused them to round up and move in an unexpected manner (I won't get into a discussion of the seamanship here). As a result they ran into an anchored boat at pretty much full speed. There was significant damage to both vessels.

The insurance companies got to arguing (of course) and in the end allocated 20% fault to the anchored boat because they were not displaying the day shape (black ball). Not sure I would interpret COLREGS exactly that way, but that's how two major insurance carriers settled an actual case based on COLREGS.

For the anchored boat they now have a claim on their insurance, which means their premiums will rise, all because they were sitting, doing nothing on their boat at anchor without a day shape displayed.

They do that so they can raise the insurance rates for BOTH parties.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The way you describe the facts, the case sounds like a miscarriage of justice, since confusion over the anchored boat's nav status was not in any way involved in the chain of causation.

But we shouldn't be surprised. If you are violating some rule, when something bad happens, even if the violation didn't cause that bad thing to happen, the chances of getting screwed over that violation are very high. Another good reason to follow the rules.

I'd agree with you. But? There you go

[Ambler]

Should we be changing our AIS boat type when we turn the engine on?

Very good point Mike, YES we should. If only there was a simple switch on the transponder. My class B would have to be reprogrammed which involves taking it off line, connecting it to a laptop, running the software to alter the transponder information. Yes it could be done technically by me as an Australian. I believe it is illegal to carry out any programing of a transponder in the US.

I rarely motor sail so I won't bother

[Uricanejack]

I don't like the mast head tri color.
My boat doesn't have one. Just standard nav lights.
It does mean I have a disadvantage. I don't have a back up. If one of my side lights fails I could put the tri color on. If I had one.

I do carry a set of battery led nav lights JIK. just a combined red green and an all round white. I have had to use them.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by Ambler

Should we be changing our AIS boat type when we turn the engine on?

Very good point Mike, YES we should. If only there was a simple switch on the transponder. My class B would have to be reprogrammed which involves taking it off line, connecting it to a laptop, running the software to alter the transponder information. Yes it could be done technically by me as an Australian. I believe it is illegal to carry out any programing of a transponder in the US.

I rarely motor sail so I won't bother

Most if not all the AIS I have seen have a menu (I hate menu's). which include type of vessel. Underway, moored, anchored ect,

Some I pick up just say yacht. So "Gender Non Specific". works