Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

[El Pinguino]

It won't hurt to post this again....
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...5/mair/mair12/
A number of issues raised ... one being misjudgement of distance due to height.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by StuM

Wrong location for one thing.

“Sternlight” means a white light placed as nearly as practicable at the stern showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 135 degrees and so fixed as to show the light 67.5 degrees from right aft on each side of the vessel."
whereas:

"A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) a masthead light forward;
"

The point about having both a masthead light and a sternlight is that as you move around the vessel, a light in one location ceases to be visible and a light in another location, both horizontally and vertically becomes visible. That change in location gives clues as to the vessels direction.

Actually Rule 23.d.i allows an all around white in lieu of masthead and stern light for vessels under 12m. I don't see any verbage about location other than height. I checked Annex 1 which only indicates that a masthead light should be forward. The graphic that goes with Rule 23.d.i shows the all around white being aft. I recall having seen an all around white near midships and the sidelights located similarly on a power boat which would provide the same image to observers at night, that is the white light directly over a colored light.

Whatever. While the masthead on a 1m post over a tri-color may be functionally equivalent to an all around over a bi-color it probably would not past muster with a technically minded authority. Also it's pretty impractical.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

'Rule 3. The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.'

An example ... I was once on a twin screw ship where the port engine was disabled... thrust bearings shot.. steam turbine.
Anyway we could still make about 15 knots but to maintain heading were carrying about 10 degrees starboard helm and altering to starboard was a major problem. We carried NUC lights from south of the equator and half way up the english channel like that.

So yes you can make way and be NUC.

Back to the yacht scenario... a single handed skipper could possibly argue extreme fatigue.....

A single handed skipper could argue extreme fatigue which the authorities would promptly shoot down for not having enough crew to keep the required look out. But that's a WHOLE different kettle of worms. Let's stick to possible lighting variations for motoring, sailing and anchoring which was the original question.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by malbert73

So right now my dinghy in davits blocks the stern light. While powering can I use the all around masthead anchor light (in lieu of sternlight and steaming light) along with bow mounted red/green running lights? Obviously need to raise sternlight as permanent solution.


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Having looked up your length, you are technically 1 foot too long to use that arrangement but probably would get away with it. I a friend with a Cal40 that just squeeks in under 12m and gets to pass on some of the requirements.

The anchor light is technically an "All around light"
The steaming light is technically a "masthead light" even though it is not usually there on a sailboat. On large vessels masts are usually erected to support the required lights which are typically at the top of those masts which is my guess as to where the term came from.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

OK... lets call it 'the all round white light at the top of my mast that I use as my anchor light' or maybe just ' pob cylch golau gwyn ar frig fy Fast rwy'n ei ddefnyddio fel fy golau angor '

Show off.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Adelie

A single handed skipper could argue extreme fatigue which the authorities would promptly shoot down for not having enough crew to keep the required look out. But that's a WHOLE different kettle of worms. . . . .

I have not found any cases which made a blanket condemnation of single handed sailing. The courts take a practical approach, as the COLREGS do. They apportion fault based on violations of good seamanship (including especially following the Rules!) and not usually on narrow technicalities.

In my opinion, showing NUC while hove to and getting some sleep is a practical and seamanlike approach to the problem. Single-handed sailing on long passages is a per se violation of the Rules, but once you are doing it, if you have an accident, you will be judged on the seamanship of your handling of the situation, following the Rules as closely as you can, and taking sound practical steps to prevent a collision.

If someone runs you down while you're showing NUC and sleeping, you will get part of the blame. HOWEVER, you will get part of the blame if you're on deck supposedly keeping watch, and get run down. So the technical violation is only one of many factors, and probably not the decisive one.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by malbert73

So right now my dinghy in davits blocks the stern light. While powering can I use the all around masthead anchor light (in lieu of sternlight and steaming light) along with bow mounted red/green running lights? Obviously need to raise sternlight as permanent solution.


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Legally, yes, if your under 12 meters in length. The stern and masthead lights may be combined and don't have to be on the centerline. Really intended for a run about with outboard motor on center, but it is legal. I would worry about the stern light being that high, though, might not be noticed by some one coming up behind you. That's not addressed in the Rules.

[malbert73]

I agree about tricolors making it tough for others. Every time I've raced in the overnight Governors Cup on the chesapeake in a southerly (where you have lots of boats tacking down the bay all night) i find I really struggle to gauge distance on those with tricolors rather than deck lights. And that difficulty is present even when they are miles away. I wouldn't have a tricolor for that reason- others will struggle to identify your relative distance


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[sailingquest]

You cant use anchor light as steaming light. That sends mixed signals. Anchor light is for anchoring.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by frogvalley

You cant use anchor light as steaming light. That sends mixed signals. Anchor light is for anchoring.

Yes you can, as long as your vessel is under 12m and the vertical separation is ok. Any observer won't know the difference. This is very common on small work boats, just port, and stb lights (or a combined lantern) and an all round white light. For a sailing boat you would need to add a stern light for sailing and switch off the all round white.

[barnakiel]

So, is the thread NOW about COLREGS or is it still about what people ACTUALLY do?

I, for one, like allround white light that is mounted at least two meters above water. I can see such boats early on and this gives me time to think what is the best avoidance. E.g. small fishers along Portuguese, African or Brazilian coasts.

Green low mounted light (bow lights mounted on any small boat) is next to invisible till you are real close. This is dangerous.

COLREGS should be re-written to reflect real life (and in more respect than just small boat lights). Rules written ages ago and with big ships in mind that give next to nil concern to the fact that small boats could be way more visible with a different kit.

Do not quote bibles. Read them and point out to the gods where they went wrong. Request that the wrong rules get rewritten. This is democracy. Navigation is not religion.

Small boats with bow mounted nav lights are a danger to navigation.

Can we possibly get back to 'what you use' and stop bashing over COLREGS in every thread that discusses nav lights. No question mark here. I know some cannot.

b.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

So, is the thread NOW about COLREGS or is it still about what people ACTUALLY do?

. . .

Do not quote bibles. Read them and point out to the gods where they went wrong. Request that the wrong rules get rewritten.

. . .

B

Any discussion of nav lights will necessarily refer to the COLREGS to some extent. The COLREGS are the starting point for establishing expectations and interpreting lights seen on the water.

If you don't understand the COLREGS then how can you be expected to install a nav light system on you vessel that doesn't create confusion in outside viewers.

For some of us the goal is to create a lighting s heme that provides maximum visibility to others with minimum confusion while at the same time meeting legal requirement.

Yes it would be nice if the COLREGS gods would listen to us and change rules to suit. Don't hold your breath though.

Finally, since this is CF, the topic will wander and there will be no controlling that.


A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground you would never try to refloat it.

[gjordan]

This is such a fast moving thread that if this comment has already been said, I missed it. For the offshore bound sailors who will probably have a wind vane on the back of their boat, a pushpit mounted stern light will light up your vane and blind you. If you plan on mounting a vane or if you have a boomkin, davits or anything else that might reflect light back into the cockpit, think carefully about where you mount your stern light. Just another thing that could easily get overlooked in preparations. ____Grant.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Adelie

B

Any discussion of nav lights will necessarily refer to the COLREGS to some extent. The COLREGS are the starting point for establishing expectations and interpreting lights seen on the water.

If you don't understand the COLREGS then how can you be expected to install a nav light system on you vessel that doesn't create confusion in outside viewers.
. . .

Of course.

Lights, signals, and shapes don't mean anything, without the COLREGS. What they mean, has to be defined by some code, which we all have access to. Otherwise, they are meaningless, and communication will not take place.

Any discussion of lights will not just "refer to the COLREGS to some extent" -- it will be a discussion OF the COLREGS.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by gjordan

This is such a fast moving thread that if this comment has already been said, I missed it. For the offshore bound sailors who will probably have a wind vane on the back of their boat, a pushpit mounted stern light will light up your vane and blind you. If you plan on mounting a vane or if you have a boomkin, davits or anything else that might reflect light back into the cockpit, think carefully about where you mount your stern light. Just another thing that could easily get overlooked in preparations. ____Grant.

Another reason why I like to use the tricolor when offshore.