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Old 29-04-2014, 12:17   #16
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

The down fall of AIS that it is a VHF and requires a direct line of sight to communicate. So bobbing up and down in the waves is a hit and miss just like anything else in a large sea. At least a strobe will reflect off of waves a mist.

Whistles, one can't tell where they are coming from in a stormy sea. Great if you have it in your mouth when you fall over board.

But if it didn't cost so damn much I'd already have it. It seems safety equipment is so over cost that one has to bend over every time one needs to update the equipment. e.g. Marine flares cost more then $5 each where road flares cost $1.50. The only real difference is the paper around them.

I spent over $10K on electronics/safety gear last year and it still isn't enough for a small 40' boat. That ridiculous!
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Old 29-04-2014, 12:24   #17
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I think the gold standard is a PLB carried by every person with a RDF antenna on the boat capable of locating that signal. So far as I know the installed RDF antenna start at around $1,000 plus the cost of the PLB's so it's an expensive option, but far and away the best.
what do you do when you retrieve the MOB, and you have no long range comms, how do you stop the resultant mega - search !!!

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After that would be AIS systems. They don't have the range or reliability of the PLB systems, but are less expensive and more common.
2-4 mile range is more then sufficient and certainly as good or better then RDFing a PLB signal. Why do you say they are less reliable, are there some stats ?

( nor would I at this stage say AIS sarts are common)

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Old 29-04-2014, 12:28   #18
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

I haven't seen any mention in this thread of a device like a MOM-9. If you're in difficult conditions, a conservative estimate is that it will take over an hour even two on a big fast boat to scramble the crew, stop the boat, get back to the point of MOB, locate the MOB, and secure them. In colder water that is body recovery unless the MOB has been able to get out of the water.
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Old 29-04-2014, 13:22   #19
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

OK, cheap and low tech, but look up "safety sausage" Basically an inflatable tube that can be 2 meters tall and usually brightly colored and sometimes covered in reflective tape. May help if MOB is close by. Pens flares are a neat idea, but what about the newer LASER flares? Would one of them work OK, I've never tried one.
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Old 29-04-2014, 14:47   #20
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

del-
The flare "pens" crossed the line into highly regulated firearms, pistol ownership, in the US. That's specifically why they went off the US market. Apparently the older ones took a .45 cartridge and since zip guns are frowned upon...end of story.
Yes, I know, you can get new ones, just be warned that you're likely to have an issue with "unlicensed pistol" at some point.

If the MOB is conscious, a "diver's sausage" would be a fast no-brainer. It has taken the SCUBA community decades to get behind these, but basically it is a 3-4' long blow-up dayglo "sausage" that clips onto your shoulder, effectively making the person in the water three or four feet taller, like a MOB pole. Cheap and reliable and more, ah, professional than a bright orange lawn/leaf/trash bag. (Sold cheaply the day after Halloween.)

After that, the Lifetag, or cheaper less sophisticated "lost luggage" tags, are a great idea because now "the boat" will scream at you if the crew silently goes overboard, which would be too easy on a night watch. The luggage tags won't show you where they went...but at least they'll tell you someone is MOB.
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Old 30-04-2014, 02:12   #21
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

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After that, the Lifetag, or cheaper less sophisticated "lost luggage" tags, are a great idea because now "the boat" will scream at you if the crew silently goes overboard, which would be too easy on a night watch. The luggage tags won't show you where they went...but at least they'll tell you someone is MOB.
That is why we have LifeTag on board + AIS-SART. I do think they are complimentary.

Someone told me at an Ocean Survival course that they didn't go with the LifeTag because it only alerted when the person was 50m away and then it would be too late already. My personal tests showed it goes off when 15m away from the boat. But even if it goes off at 50m, to me that is a hell of a lot better than not having a system (which was that couple's alternative choice). Just remember that the MOB point it sets on your plotter is not the exact spot where the person went overboard.

One downside to the system is that your plotter systems must be on. People who want to get by with a minimalist power consumption should look for something else.


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Old 08-05-2014, 15:03   #22
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Re: man over board devices

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Delmarrey,
I already have a strobe attached to each PFD. I even went so far as to make a hood for each PFD out of reflective material with a pocket to put the strobe in, so it was at the top of the head. I have thought about having some sort of way to have the strobe higher, if the mob was able to hold something like an inflatable tube. Thanks for your reply
RDW
Something like this on the Spinlock lifejackets https://www.spinlock.co.uk/fr/catego...dw-py-slash-l1 ?
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Old 08-05-2014, 15:22   #23
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

chay-
I'm not sure what is currently being sold but had seen ads for scuba sausages that took a cylume stick, so the whole sausage lit up at night, like the wand on a runway flashlight.
Fast way to get the whole thing readymade if they're still out there.
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Old 08-05-2014, 15:35   #24
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

Handheld DSC VHF has a simple way to locate an unconscious MOB. If victim has DSC radio switched on when they go overboard then the mother ship can request the position without any action by the victim. AIS SART can do but I think it has to be on and pinging before victim goes into the water so everyone will be broadcasting location all the time. DSC does not suffer from this problem. All DSC units on board can have same MMSI. When there is a MOB situation turn off all radios except the big VHF. Send a position request to own ship MMSI and the MOB radio should instantly respond. When integrated into the chart plotter the MOB position will show up there too.
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Old 08-05-2014, 15:48   #25
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

dan-
"to locate an unconscious MOB. If victim has DSC radio switched on when they go overboard then "
Catch-22, that will only work if the radio is on, which in turn would require all deck crew to have their radios on, which means really the entire watch haveto have their radios on, which means they all have to be charging their radios pretty much all the time, as most will give maybe 8 hours of service then require an "overnight" recharge.
In any case, LOTS of radios to be strapped on, strapped off. Turned on, turned off. Charged and recharged...or a boatload of standardized battery packs, and what two ht's ever take the same battery pack?

Nice idea, but wrong hardware I think.
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Old 08-05-2014, 17:15   #26
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

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In any case, LOTS of radios to be strapped on, strapped off. Turned on, turned off. Charged and recharged..
Quite so. IMO the ideal device will automatically deploy with the lifejacket and also be stowed within the life-jacket's protective cover; oh and it shoudl be free .

It should not be a divers sausage or handheld radio or any other device that requires the MOB to have to manually operate it or carry a dozen pockets on his/her harness so that they end up looking like Robocop.

The best that I have seen on the market so far is this one from McMurdo Smartfind S20 which can apparently deploy automatically when professionally fitted to a life-jacket. I would of course want to be able to re-arm it myself when the life-jacket inflated after I got a dousing and the pill melted whilst putting in the 4th reef at 4am .........

I also think there is a lot to be said for the MOB screamers that alarm when a tag goes out of range.. most people don't go overboard in bad conditions, as they are very conscious of the possibility, but when taking a pee or watching phosphorescence, dolphins, stars, all or none of the above, etc.. So when your reaching along in nice easy conditions and your partner goes over the side whilst alone on night watch you are at least roused from your slumber and have a half chance of picking them up rather than sailing on for several more hours before you awake to an empty boat.

Chris
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Old 08-05-2014, 17:22   #27
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

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I, too, am thinking of getting some AIS MOB SARTs for the crew.

Our PFDs all have strobes attached, but in any moderate swell the MOB would be hidden behind a wave even as close as 50 yards away. If another crew member is immediately aware of the MOB, they could toss the pole, which stands 8' high and would be visible within a few hundred yards. Otherwise, even with a strobe, it would be hard to see a MOB over any distance in anything other than calm seas.

Products like the McMurdo S20/Kannad R10 can be setup to automatically activate upon activation of some models of inflatable PFD. Others, like the SeaMOB MW+, can automatically activate on submersion with water -- although at twice the price of the McMurdo/Kannad. I'm inclined to get twice as many McMurdos and afix them to the PFDs instead of half as many SeaMOBs that get handed from one crew to another when transitioning watch.

One thing I don't know, and perhaps others could help with, is how the MOB appears on the AIS display. I have a Simarad A150. I believe that there is an alternate message type (14?) used for safety related broadcasts -- but I'm not sure if the older A150 shows it or whether it triggers the collision alert alarm Does anyone with an A150 have experience with a McMurdo/Kannad?
I have been researching this just recently. I have Raymarine so can only comment on Raymarine. The MOB comes up on the E97 screen as a red cross in a red circle however due to an omission in their code there is no way yet of triggering an alarm. A request has been put to development for this feature but I don't think it is available yet. So I am looking at both a Raymarine Lifetag to fire off an alarm when someone goes over. It also puts a mark for where they went over (good even if unconscious), and a McMurdo that will keep telling the boat where they are now. Both will interact with the chart plotter but differently. Unfortunately 2 separate devices.
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Old 08-05-2014, 17:56   #28
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

Are we talking about racing with 4-5 man watches or cruising couples? For the latter, having a couple of radios for the watch standers doesn't seem too much of a burden. Recharging batteries isn't a big deal either. Our SH DSC handheld lasts for 2 8 hour watches on standby. Recharging takes much less than that.

Would it be nice if something smaller and more foolproof was available? Yes, but it isn't. We use the hardware we can get rather than wait and wish for that which we cannot.
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Old 08-05-2014, 18:31   #29
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

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Would it be nice if something smaller and more foolproof was available? Yes, but it isn't. We use the hardware we can get rather than wait and wish for that which we cannot.
I'm talking cruising couples.. I already have a compatible AIS receiver, a Watchmate 850; which is always on as it's the lowest power consumption option for GPS and AIS, and with an external buzzer wakes the dead on an alarm situation. This makes the McMurdo S20 attractive to me as it installs in the lifejacket and is fit and forget. On my boat lifejackets, and harness', are compulsory when alone on deck so the person on deck should always have it.

As another person said. I don't like the odds of an unconscious, or very cold, person making a DSC call, in warm water those odds improve of course; but that is unfortunately rarely the case where I sail

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Old 08-05-2014, 19:17   #30
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Re: Man Overboard Devices

DSC isn't well understood it seems.. The MOB doesn't have to make a DSC call. The mother ship merely asks the handheld for its position. The MOB has to do nothing whatsoever. A side benefit is you can actually talk to the MOB.
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