Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-09-2013, 09:46   #1
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

Yesterday we ran our genoa sheet through a block attached to the toe rail and pretty far aft to add foot tension (sort of a poor man's barber hauler). I was told if the bottom genoa telltale is hanging limp the sail could be overtrimmed and the sheet needs to be eased.

Seems to go against everything I thought I knew.

Comments?
__________________

__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 09:48   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,766
My definition of barber hauler is out, not aft. If tou were sailing off of the wind and had the foot strapped, then likely you were trimmed too tightly. But there are a lot of other variable to address too.
__________________

__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 09:51   #3
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,666
Re: Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

Inner or outer telltale? what was the apparent wind direction?/your point of sail??
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 10:05   #4
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
My definition of barber hauler is out, not aft. If tou were sailing off of the wind and had the foot strapped, then likely you were trimmed too tightly. But there are a lot of other variable to address too.
The inner/windward telltale was hanging down.

It was "out" from the standpoint of running through a block attached to the toe rail rather than running through the inside car. It was "aft" on the toe rail to increase foot tension.

We were on a beam reach.
__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 11:04   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,766
Sounds to me like you were over trimmed, and when reaching off you move the sheeting point forward to open up the sail.
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 11:31   #6
Registered User
 
FecklessDolphin's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tortola
Boat: Morris Justine 36'
Posts: 145
Re: Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

When you position the genoa lead aft, you tighten the foot, but you also open the leech. This creates more twist in the sail. With more twist, if you have the upper portion of the sail trimmed to the wind with the telltales flying, the bottom portion of the sail will be overtrimmed, also known as stalled. You can play with your genoa cars, moving them forward and aft, to observe how their positioning affects which telltales (uppers or lowers) are flying. The optimal position of the genoa cars will vary with wind and sea conditions. If you do not have genoa tracks, hopefully your leads were placed in an intermediate position where the uppers and lowers fly together in moderate wind conditions.
__________________
FecklessDolphin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 11:35   #7
Registered User
 
Dennis.G's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sea of Cortez and the U.P. of Michigan
Boat: Celestial 48
Posts: 750
Re: Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

Moving genny car back (or using snatch block aft) will tend to flatten foot of sail and let head twist off downwind. If upper sail is looking good sounds like your lower sail area is stalled out. Likely should undo what you did, and sheet the genny from a point further forward on rail.
__________________
Dennis.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2013, 09:59   #8
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions/comments.

Sheeting angles aside, I'm having trouble understanding why the immediate reaction to a limp windward telltale (stalled) is to ease the sheet or head up.

Seems counter-intuitive given if the windward telltale were luffing or dancing the appropriate action is to sheet in or fall off.
__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2013, 10:28   #9
Neo
Registered User
 
Neo's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salem, MA
Boat: Pearson 31
Posts: 535
Re: Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
I'm having trouble understanding why the immediate reaction to a limp windward telltale (stalled) is to ease the sheet or head up.
It only seems to make sense if you were on a broad reach.
__________________
Neo
Neo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2013, 10:59   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,172
Images: 15
Re: Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

OldFrog,

Simply said: move the sail in the direction of the hanging telltale.

If the lee tale is hanging (stalled), ease the sheet. If the windward tale is hanging, sheet in.

Or, instead of sheeting in, turn the boat accordingly.
__________________
tamicatana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2013, 17:56   #11
Registered User
 
caradow's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Connecticut/Caribbean
Boat: Voyage 440 Owners Version
Posts: 472
Re: Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

sounds like you were simply over-trimmed in a de-powered setting.
you were set up to de-power a sail that theoretically was too large for the given wind conditions. ie: open slot with increased twist

not sure what you were trying to achieve otherwise.
also basically your lower telltail by luffing was the same as if you were sailing too high an angle to the wind. cracking the sheets should give you a better angle of attack and the lower telltail should start flying again.

btw you can sometimes increase halyard tension and this will give you a wider groove and remedy this situation also. this is good to know for times the helmsman is having difficulty keeping the boat moving through a lumpy sea.

good luck
__________________

__________________
caradow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Genoa

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.