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Old 21-04-2010, 09:09   #1
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Light-to-Heavy Reefing Line Set-Up ?

Currently we have the 1st reef reefing line set up for use at any time. I was thinking that it would be nice to have the 2nd reef also rigged at all times.

Since the reefing lines are pretty heavy (3/8" or 1/2" I'd guess) having the 2nd reefing line in place at all times would really mess up the shape of the main during light winds. Even the 1st reefing line messes up the main leech shape when we are ghosting along.

The theoretical solution would seem to be to rig the reefing lines with a light line in place at all times, spliced into the full-diameter line. The idea is that there is no rigging needed when the time comes to reef, just haul in the small diameter line to pull the heavy line into place and do the reefing.

My question is if that is also a practical solution and if it is; how is the heavy line stored before it is pulled through the reefing cringle and put under load ?

Maybe this is a case where theory and practice won't meet ?

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Old 21-04-2010, 10:17   #2
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Where are you going to stow the heavy line? Were you thinking about using blocks on both sides so the heavy line is up by the mast?

Probably the easier solution is to go to smaller diameter lighter weight modern line like spectra.

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Old 21-04-2010, 10:39   #3
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This might be a fair chance for me to input my similar dilemma; I have both 1st & 2nd tack & clue reef lines run back to the cockpit (with 3/8in line, the main halyard as well) but I'm not sure of the best way to rig my 3rd reef. Any ideas?
Thanks, John
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Old 21-04-2010, 10:53   #4
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Reef lines aren't all that heavy and won't really effect the shape of the sail except maybe in ghosting/no wind conditions. 3/8' line is really a lightweight line, except to the racing nutters, on a boat the size of yours. Personally think it is more important to have the 2nd and 3rd, if you have it, reef lines permanently in place. By the time you get down to needing them, things will be getting really really interesting on board. I don't really relish hanging over a bucking boom in 25mph plus winds and resultant seas trying to run lines on a flopping sail. Personally, I'd like to stay alive rather than make an aesthetic statement.

I assume you are talking clew and tack lines and not the intermediate lines that are meant to bundle up the reefed sail. Those lines aren't all that necessary and can be very light line as they take virtually no load or just omitted.
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Old 21-04-2010, 11:01   #5
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the 2nd and 3rd, if you have it, reef lines permanently in place. By the time you get down to needing them, things will be getting really really interesting on board. I don't really relish hanging over a bucking boom in 25mph plus winds and resultant seas trying to run lines on a flopping sail. .
Yeah. Absolutely.
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Old 21-04-2010, 11:03   #6
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Thanks for the feedback. If I only have room for two of the three possible reefs run back to the cockpit it does seem to make more sense to have #2 & #3 as that's when the conditions will be the worst. Mt philosophy of having the first reef easy to put in is based on the dilemma of "waiting longer" or putting on foul wx gear / risk getting wet to go forward to the mast. With #1 to the cockpit it's done in a snap. Ah boats - never simple :-).
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Old 21-04-2010, 11:07   #7
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I wouldn't go to sea without the second reef rigged and preferably the third as well. The first reef is usually so small that it can be dispensed with. The one thing I would not want is to be b*ggering about with reefing lines when the wind starts to blow.

I always reef early - you don't lose any speed and its soooo much more comfortable.
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Old 21-04-2010, 11:18   #8
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You can use spectra 12 plait and then cover the wear area. (~3 foot or so?)

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Old 21-04-2010, 11:26   #9
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Well, I hate to give up on the ease of putting in #1 as on my boat, and I expect many more, it really does make the difference of keeping her on her lines vs pressing the boat and crew. We've been in 35kt winds w/o needing the #3, and to get back to the original thread it would put up much more line to deal with, but heaven help me to have to "string up" #3 in 40kts!
Thanks, as always, for the good feedback.
John
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Old 21-04-2010, 12:24   #10
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You can use spectra 12 plait and then cover the wear area. (~3 foot or so?)
That looks like the right answer.

Good insights all around !

Thanks,



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Old 21-04-2010, 20:10   #11
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Using smaller Spectra line is probably the best answer, but before this was readily available, I considered running a small line as a messanger in an endless loop between the clew cringles for the second and third reefs. Then, while under sail after putting in the second reef, I would tie the end of the first reef line to the tail of this loop and feed it thru the third reef cringle and back to the boom.
Never did it but this could work, and I think this is what you were originally asking for.
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Old 21-04-2010, 23:05   #12
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Originally Posted by Squeaks View Post
This might be a fair chance for me to input my similar dilemma; I have both 1st & 2nd tack & clue reef lines run back to the cockpit (with 3/8in line, the main halyard as well) but I'm not sure of the best way to rig my 3rd reef. Any ideas?
Thanks, John
Three solutions I can think of:

1. Buy a 2 reef main

2. Have an endless mouse line running between the 3rd & 2nd reefing eyes on the sail (up one side and down the other). The mouse has a 6'' tail.

When reef no.2 goes in you tie reefing line no. 1 to the mouse tail (best to sew in a loop of whipping twine to tie the mouse tail to.) and run the mouse.

3. Add a third line by attaching a cheek block to the boom at the 3rd reef point and run the line external to the boom
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Old 22-04-2010, 08:21   #13
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Using smaller Spectra line is probably the best answer, but before this was readily available, I considered running a small line as a messanger in an endless loop between the clew cringles for the second and third reefs. Then, while under sail after putting in the second reef, I would tie the end of the first reef line to the tail of this loop and feed it thru the third reef cringle and back to the boom.
Never did it but this could work, and I think this is what you were originally asking for.
Thanks, that was indeed the kind of solution I was initially asking about. I think the Spectra line is probably the best solution and we'll give it a try.

(I'll have to Google Norseman 430. The 447 is one of our favorite designs but I didn't know there was a 430. Bob Perry design ?)


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Old 22-04-2010, 08:39   #14
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My solution is to leave the 3rd reef unrigged except when going offshore. Hard to imagine going out into conditions where a 3rd reef is needed if I dont have to, unless I am already there because I am too far away from a port.
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Old 22-04-2010, 14:08   #15
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Three solutions I can think of:

1. Buy a 2 reef main

2. Have an endless mouse line running between the 3rd & 2nd reefing eyes on the sail (up one side and down the other). The mouse has a 6'' tail.

When reef no.2 goes in you tie reefing line no. 1 to the mouse tail (best to sew in a loop of whipping twine to tie the mouse tail to.) and run the mouse.

3. Add a third line by attaching a cheek block to the boom at the 3rd reef point and run the line external to the boom
1. Funny (but expensive and a downgrade)
2. I hadn't thought of that but can't picture it exactly but I'll "play" with it some.
3. #3 cheek block already there, just not wanting to wait for conditions to be dangerous at the mast to go forward.

For casual sails out & back to the Channel Islands should not normally see 40-kts.
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