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Old 11-08-2017, 17:42   #286
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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.......

This is just another computer-assisted grounding, failure to keep an effective watch, and failure to allow sea room to a charted hazard, Huahine's fringe reef.

Ann
WRT this aspect, here is another event just waiting to happen (notably post #15)
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Old 13-08-2017, 15:57   #287
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Having grown up using paper charts and piloting skills on the coast, I am less certain that paper charts and such like memorabilia have much to do with one's navigating skills.

I believe other factors are far more guiding. E.g. one's general level of common sense, of spatial orientation. Maybe also the way one acquired their nav skills - in a school, sailing, over a longer period, or none of the above.

Some factors, like spatial sense and good sense, we are born with. And they can be honed and improved, but only given that one sees any need for such. To me it seems most people today do not. Just look around and watch people texting and crossing the street.

The other thing, how we actually acquire our nav skills is something we have more control over. Doing ASA courses then buying the biggest plotter on the market is not quite an equivalent of studying navigation from the bottom up and then choosing the best tool for the job at hand.

Whatever. End of my summer, pre-boatyard, rant. If we want to make this world a better place, we can take a look at ourselves then make a change.

Love to all ya,
b.
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Old 13-08-2017, 18:33   #288
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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.......
I believe other factors are far more guiding. E.g. one's general level of common sense, of spatial orientation. Maybe also the way one acquired their nav skills - in a school, sailing, over a longer period, or none of the above.

.....
b.
I'm pretty sure the Leopard's skipper has excellent spatial orientation skills, as he is/was a commercial pilot.
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Old 13-08-2017, 19:03   #289
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

I read all postings and cannot find if any one has posted/seen a paper chart to compare with the electronic ,basically,will a paper chart could have prevented this tragedy?
thanks
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Old 13-08-2017, 19:12   #290
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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I'm pretty sure the Leopard's skipper has excellent spatial orientation skills, as he is/was a commercial pilot.
I would hazard a guess that a P/Pilot vfr would be less likely to believe his electronic charts than the above commercial pilot by the mere fact of amount of use.
Then I got My PPL when plotters were still a winkle in some ones eye.
Conversely, not believing ones instruments nearly got me lost on vfr once
owing to severe sunstrike.
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Old 13-08-2017, 19:40   #291
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Hi, davil,

There was one post in the beginning few pages of this thread, where someone posted 3 pictures, one of the Navionics chart, one of C-Maps, and one of the French chart for the area.

After that, estarzinger started testing the Navionics on different tablets, and discovered that in some cases, the Navionics chart was displayed in a very misleading manner. Subsequently, he reported it to Navionics, and they have put out a new app that is reported to fix it. I know that's not a for sure deal, but if you're concerned, take the time to go back, carefully, through the thread, what you need to know is buried in there somewhere.

Use of either C-maps or a paper chart could have prevented this. It was the lack of sea room that really did them in.

Ann
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Old 13-08-2017, 19:57   #292
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

oooops!!!!
missed them
thank you Ann
always learning from mistakes
most times mine,in this case not.
Agree,too close to the reef,electronic charts or paper made no difference.
Sadly
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Old 15-08-2017, 02:24   #293
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Last I've seen they are all enjoying themselves in NZ (and good on them!). I do hope they take full responsibility for all the plastic they left on the reef. Have they just left? Would they be allowed to leave before they arrange a proper clean-up?
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Old 15-08-2017, 04:58   #294
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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Last I've seen they are all enjoying themselves in NZ (and good on them!). I do hope they take full responsibility for all the plastic they left on the reef. Have they just left? Would they be allowed to leave before they arrange a proper clean-up?


Read back a few blog posts about this- they've had to pay nearly 40K to have boat inspected for environmental readiness, and then towed to deep water and sunk. They seem very environmentally conscious and in their blog lament the damage their boat has caused.
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Old 15-08-2017, 08:39   #295
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Ah, I missed that bit. Not sure if sinking a couple of tons of plastic won't add to the plastic soup. I hope the wreck or will be removed in a responsible manner and that it wil go further than the inspection only.
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Old 15-08-2017, 15:48   #296
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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Ah, I missed that bit. Not sure if sinking a couple of tons of plastic won't add to the plastic soup. I hope the wreck or will be removed in a responsible manner and that it wil go further than the inspection only.

Agree completely. Will slowly break down and add to the soup. Not sure what else can be done short of missing the reef in first place


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Old 15-08-2017, 15:55   #297
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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Ah, I missed that bit. Not sure if sinking a couple of tons of plastic won't add to the plastic soup. I hope the wreck or will be removed in a responsible manner and that it wil go further than the inspection only.

My understanding is that they sink the hull and rig (not sure why the owners didn't remove the rig - plenty of expensive bits there) with several tons of added iron weight several miles offshore. Fibreglass doesn't breakdown like plastic, so it will become an inert reef in several thousand metres of depth.

The company that is doing the removal of the wreck from the reef and sinking it is responsible for removing any remaining floating/polluting items (including I suppose pumping tanks). That's part of their contract.
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Old 15-08-2017, 16:04   #298
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Well, to remove the mast, you'd pretty much have to have a very large barge boat, with a crane with a very large reach. It would be difficult in any event to avoid further damage to the reef.

Perhaps, they had "cleanup insurance", that covered what will be done, and decided to donate the mast to the local economy. I would not expect us to be able to get all the gory details.

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Old 15-08-2017, 16:10   #299
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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Well, to remove the mast, you'd pretty much have to have a very large barge boat, with a crane with a very large reach. It would be difficult in any event to avoid further damage to the reef.

Perhaps, they had "cleanup insurance", that covered what will be done, and decided to donate the mast to the local economy. I would not expect us to be able to get all the gory details.

Ann


Good point re: removing the mast. Though they must have some sort of crane to move the wreck off the reef and onto a barge.

No insurance, but that's what the fee to the removal company is for. If there was anything left on the boat after the owners finished, the removal company would surely remove anything of value that they can. It would be interesting to see what they do.
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Old 15-08-2017, 16:22   #300
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

I would have thot someone would have had the mast rigging sails etc , q possible to remove without a crane if it is deck stepped .
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