Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-03-2015, 20:08   #1
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

So, we have some thunderstorms here in Key West tonight, and I thought I'd experiment with my ground tackle (22.5 lb Bruce, 70' 5/16" chain, nylon rode) as the conditions didn't look to be awful. I made sure I had plenty of lee room and wasn't close to any other boats. I let out 4:1 scope and dove and set the anchor (grass bottom). I expected to drag as i wanted to test the tackle, and I did promptly in the first burst. Engine water passages blocked so left under sail.
Reset with 7:1 scope in much stronger winds (feels higher than 30 mph at times), and was doing well until I dragged in a burst and was moving pretty quick. Now I'm really worried, I'd fixed the engine in the interim, and literally just dragged the anchor to a location where I had more lee room to work. I couldn't even really turn the boat into the wind with my 11 hp. Tried to set a second anchor but that wasn't working (dragging the first anchor meant I was in danger of tangling). Let out a bunch more scope (probably at 10:1 now) and prayed. Currently holding, thank god. I was scared on two occasions that I was about to lose the boat, which would devastate me emotionally if not financially.
I'm looking for tips to help me save the boat in case I drag again.
I think the issue is that my boat will sail 30-50 degrees on either tack at anchor. I can only imagine the stress this puts on everything. Usually pulling up anchor under sail I raise the main (in this case I'm reefed all the way), sheet it tight and lash the tiller midships. But the sailing at anchor and the wave action caused her to sail back and forth on tacks rather than forereach as she normally would. When I got the anchor up, she proceeded to get blown off wind and sail straight for the lee shore, despite being set up to forereach. If I drag again, I will probably need to sail her off rather than motor her, any tips to reduce her sailing at anchor or to sail her off in a storm? Thanks very much!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2015, 20:18   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,312
Images: 75
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

if you have the room let out more scope,sail or motor across the wind with your 2nd anchor ready to go.
once the rode stops the boat let out your second anchor,this should give you a nice 45 deg angle once it sets.

when just using your main make sure your mainsheet is slack to gain momentum,otherwise you will just end up "IN IRONS" if the main is pulled in tight.
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2015, 20:38   #3
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

I will let out more scope now. Would you recommend also sailing to lay the second anchor now or wait to see if the first drags again?
My second anchor is a danforth on mostly rope rode, and if the wind shifts I'm concerned it might break and wrap up my first anchor. If I have to cut them loose, I'm down to one last danforth. And if I need to motor forward to take strain off the rode (what I tried to do last time), I'm concerned the rode may get caught in the prop. Are these valid concerns or would you set it? Very much appreciate your advice!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2015, 20:50   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,312
Images: 75
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

if you are happy your motor is working ,and your anchor is holding,then letting out a bit more scope will increase its holding power.

I personally like to set a second anchor in winds above 30 knots,but as you have said you do run the risk of fouling,probably best to keep it ready on deck for the moment and if you haven't dragged in stronger gusts then chances are you will be fine by now,with the anchor having set.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2015, 20:56   #5
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

Thanks atoll. This should be the peak of it according to the weather reports. I've let out more scope and walked around the boat getting rid of windage (collapsed Bimini, dragged dinghy down). No question I'd rather be sailing downwind in this kind of weather!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2015, 21:11   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,312
Images: 75
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
Thanks atoll. This should be the peak of it according to the weather reports. I've let out more scope and walked around the boat getting rid of windage (collapsed Bimini, dragged dinghy down). No question I'd rather be sailing downwind in this kind of weather!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I have the philosophy of if I can, drop as much chain as possible!:10:1 is about the norm for me,and allways back down on it regardless of conditions.

see if you can find a couple of transits on the land,so you know the vessel is staying in position,or set your anchor alarm on the gps,you might have to increase the alarm range if you have a lot of scope out or it will go off every 5 minutes.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2015, 21:15   #7
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,429
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

Find better holding? Where are you anchored in KW? Try to anchor in the lee of one of the islands. Also, use a kellet (slide a big weight down your anchor line).

And yes, get an anchor better suited for anchoring in sand and seagrass.
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 07:40   #8
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

I promise I have anchored before, really In all seriousness, thank you for all the help, it meant a lot to me last night as dark fell and things started to get hinky, and I was planning my alternatives besides motoring north into the flats and hoping to ground her well away from the rock breakwater and submerged pilings. I thought I was pretty hot **** until last night, as I've sailed in worse conditions than these, but never handicapped by an anchor dragging in grass!
As sun rose, the wind had dropped five knots and I managed to get a couple hours of sleep. It's still blowing heavily here though. I had never imagined my little 8,000 lbs 28' boat would manage to drag 70' of chain bar-taut in what wasn't exactly a horrid blow. I can't pull in rode by hand unassisted in this. She held beautifully in a white squall at the Dry Tortugas so I thought I was safe, but boats have a way of surprising you.
I'm anchored north of the garrison bight mooring field, and I can see one boat that's dragged on shore but thankfully didn't push all the way onto the rocks in front of the RV park.
In retrospect, I certainly should have fled for the mooring field when things were still calm yesterday morning, but I've had a good opportunity to deal with chafe points and practice changing my shorts while running around the boat. I left my mainsail tied tight and reefed in, but uncovered so I could raise it quickly, though I think I'm actually better letting out a bit of jib and using it to wear quickly and get off on 90 degrees due to this sailing at anchor issue.
Looking back with a calmer mind, my motor actually could fight the wind some, I couldn't turn across the wind though because the rode was dragged tight against the windward side of my hull. I was steering poorly in the night.
Two questions: is it a concern that the prop can eat a rope rode? I hadn't let out much more rope rode beyond my 70' of chain because of this idea (I was anchored in 9 feet with 4 feet of height off my bow).
I had read that after 10:1 scope, more scope does little to change the angle of attack and isn't really worth it, but atoll it sounds like you put out more than that in a blow? It certainly helped me.
I have always liked Bruces in the past and never had a problem, but I think I can expect more grass anchoring in the Bahamas. Any suggestions on a new pick? The Danforth did hold her in similar conditions in the same place three weeks ago on 120 feet of rope rode with a short chain leader. Because the wind went through a 90+ degree shift, I didn't use it this time out of fear it would break out.
I read some old emails from two owners ago, and he always Bahamian anchored her no matter what the wind condition was because of the sailing at anchor and the tendency for his rope rode to wrap his keel. I will probably begin doing similarly in conditions like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 09:05   #9
Registered User
 
tstano's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NH
Boat: Pearson 530
Posts: 98
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Find better holding? Where are you anchored in KW? Try to anchor in the lee of one of the islands. Also, use a kellet (slide a big weight down your anchor line).

And yes, get an anchor better suited for anchoring in sand and seagrass.
You may also consider an anchor riding sail to dampen the swing while anchored. With a full chain rode a bridle could be attached to the rode, again it would reduce the swing.
__________________
All U Get
tstano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 09:25   #10
Registered User
 
Hydra's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lorient, Brittany, France
Boat: Gib'Sea 302, 30' - Hydra
Posts: 1,229
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

brownoarsman,
How deep was the water during the night? What length of Nylon did you deploy? Maybe your tackle lacked elasticity.

Alain
__________________
Hydra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 09:35   #11
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

Water was 9 feet, nylon rode lengthy was 15 feet at first. Now it's more like 70'. It is possible it was jerking the ground tackle all about, definitely.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 09:36   #12
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

I looked into the riding sail and bridle last night as possible suggestions. Sadly, can't make either work right at the exact moment but keeping them in mind, thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 09:50   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 1,854
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

Sure is good to have atoll around when you need him!


S/V B'Shert
__________________
Tayana42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 09:58   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New London, NH
Boat: Intrepid 9 meter, 29.5 feet
Posts: 91
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

Brownoarsman,
Congratulations on saving the boat.
My first boat was a Paceship 23. Anchored among other boats, and sailing at anchor. I deployed a small Danforth approximately perpendicular to the main anchor rode. I pulled in on this smaller rode just enough to stop the sailing at anchor. What a relief. Haven't done it recently, but I have found that a kellet reduces the sailing.
Think ahead about which side is the best side to deploy the smaller anchor in view of the expected wind shift and neighboring boats.
__________________
Old Swampy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 10:35   #15
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wrangell Island, Alaska
Boat: Nauticat 43
Posts: 865
Re: Leaving anchor under sail in a storm

Hi Brownoarsman,

It sounds like you might need an anchor better suited to grassy bottoms. I have had the same experiences with claw anchors in the past and consequently don't use them any more. [End of type of anchor remarks...]

RE: Riding at anchor, another lesser known gambit that works on most boats is to fasten a small drogue to the anchor rode so it just remains underwater when the rode is stretched tight. (works best on chain rode...)

It will dampen the horsing enough to make it seem like you are on a mooring... You will need to experiment with drogue sizing for your boat and rode to see what works best. [e.g., A 2ft diameter drogue would be large enough for most ~40 ft boats from my experience...]

Congrats keeping you, your crew, and your boat safe in the blow. That can be unnerving for anyone in any size vessel...

Cheers!
__________________

__________________
SV Denali Rose

Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]
wrwakefield is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Leaving a mooring/anchorage under sail poiu General Sailing Forum 32 14-02-2015 14:19
For Sale: Storm Staysail / Storm Jib riggear Classifieds Archive 4 21-10-2013 14:37
2nd Anchor / Storm anchor Poll Cotemar Anchoring & Mooring 68 25-02-2013 17:06
Storm Jibs - Hoisting / Dousing with Sleeve, Parallel Beads or a Storm Bag ? Chantal Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 3 30-10-2011 12:42
For Sale: Sea Anchor, Storm Tri-Sail, Storm Jib Gailwind Classifieds Archive 15 24-10-2010 07:24



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.