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Old 28-10-2012, 04:32   #16
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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Knots,Splices and Rope Work A Practical Treatise: A.(Alpheus) Hyatt Verrill: Amazon.com: Kindle Store

Free book on Kindle, missing one or two diagrams but I really like the way he has opinions on knot types. Worth a look.
Not available in the UK
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Old 28-10-2012, 07:25   #17
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

Generally, the double sheet bend is preferred with lines of different size. It can always be seized like any knot. The Carrick is often reserved for large rope and again seized for long term applications. I often employee the alpine loop but never consider the alpine bend or the other interlocking overhand knot bends. I used the double sheet bend when a bend is required. Ultimately you will become comfortable with your own set of knots so keep learning and having fun. I still tie every new knot I see, just to do it.
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Old 28-10-2012, 07:58   #18
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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Generally, the double sheet bend is preferred with lines of different size. It can always be seized like any knot. The Carrick is often reserved for large rope and again seized for long term applications. I often employee the alpine loop but never consider the alpine bend or the other interlocking overhand knot bends. I used the double sheet bend when a bend is required. Ultimately you will become comfortable with your own set of knots so keep learning and having fun. I still tie every new knot I see, just to do it.
Thanks Dugout.
Can half of a double fisherman's be used as a form of securing each end instead of seizing them? Would be much quicker. Is so, this could probably be used on a Carrick as well?
This can be used on bowlines successfully to prevent the tendency to undo when movement occurs not under any pressure.

I have not used the Alpine butterfly bend as I have just become at ease tying it, but this seems to be the most secure of the three when lines are of the same size.
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Old 28-10-2012, 08:29   #19
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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Thanks Dugout.
Can half of a double fisherman's be used as a form of securing each end instead of seizing them? Would be much quicker. Is so, this could probably be used on a Carrick as well?
This can be used on bowlines successfully to prevent the tendency to undo when movement occurs not under any pressure.

I have not used the Alpine butterfly bend as I have just become at ease tying it, but this seems to be the most secure of the three when lines are of the same size.
You could use the "half fishermans" which is just and overhand knot but a clove hitch would be just as fast, more secure, and easier to undo.
Overhand knots in large line don't work out too well and that is generally the game with the Carrick.
The bowline is better secured with a "tuck". This is how I tie a bowline.
The Yosemite Bowline
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:11   #20
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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You could use the "half fishermans" which is just and overhand knot but a clove hitch would be just as fast, more secure, and easier to undo.
Overhand knots in large line don't work out too well and that is generally the game with the Carrick.
The bowline is better secured with a "tuck". This is how I tie a bowline.
The Yosemite Bowline
Thanks. I like the Yosemite, ties easily and the end tucks in nicely and securely, so I'll remember it.

I have become wary of bowlines not under tension working loose after I lost a scouring pad overboard a couple of times after being tied to my wrist. I then started tying it as a "Water bowline" or securing the end with what I call "half a double fishermans", which is like a double overhand, not an ordinary one.

By the way, welcome to the forum. I notice you are new here. Thanks for your advice .
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:27   #21
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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By the way, welcome to the forum. I notice you are new here. Thanks for your advice .
Well thanks but I'm not really new. I've been here since 2008; I just don't post much. I only post if I think I have something to offer and can pay it back. I spend a lot more time reading. I've learned a lot here.
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:30   #22
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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Well thanks but I'm not really new. I've been here since 2008; I just don't post much. I only post if I think I have something to offer and can pay it back. I spend a lot more time reading. I've learned a lot here.
Me too until recently. Been "lurking" here as they put it for many years.
Just having a pre-dinner drink and practicing knots .
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:07   #23
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

For beginners, it would be useful to link the knot with its use and under what conditions. My problem is I can't remember the names except for the basic ones. Back later!
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:21   #24
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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For beginners, it would be useful to link the knot with its use and under what conditions. My problem is I can't remember the names except for the basic ones. Back later!
Most knots fall under these basic groups;
hitches
loops
bends
splices
Form follows function and preference.
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:40   #25
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

1) Learning to tie knots: Use the books, animated websites, etc. The most important thing is to cut at least four six-foot lengths of 1/4" to 1/2" line, using different colors if possible, and *practice*. That horrible, cheap, colorful, line you can buy in hardware stores (it comes in hanks and the core appears to be made from paper towels) isn't good for much, but it is great for practicing with. Practice at home while sitting on the sofa. Tying knots quickly and well is as much about muscle-memory as anything else. Learn the basics (there are some good lists above in this discussion), and learn a few fancy ones. Try tying some with your eyes closed. PRACTICE!

2) For tying two similar-diameter lines together, look at the Zeppelin Bend. It's easier and quicker than the Carrick Bend, it doesn't shake out, doesn't jam, and it looks really good. Few people are familiar with it, so you can use it to impress your friends!
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:58   #26
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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For beginners, it would be useful to link the knot with its use and under what conditions. My problem is I can't remember the names except for the basic ones. Back later!
OK here goes with what I have found useful:

End stoppers:
Figure 8 (easy, but can slip easily)
Double overhand (bulkier and more reliable)

Joining line together:
Square (reef knot) - useful as a quick option that can be tied under load, only OK if there is likely to be not much movement
Sheet bend - very quick and easy, can be undone after load, but needs no load to tie
Double sheet bend - good if lines to be joined are very unequal diameter of if better security needed
Carrick - very reliable, particularly good if lines are of a big diameter, can be untied
Double fisherman's - very very reliable, but may not be able to be untied after a big load has applied
Alpine butterfly - most secure if lines are of roughly the same size, can be untied

Loops on an end:
Bowline (learn to tie it blindfolded in your sleep in all 4 directions, it is the knot most used sailing I think)
Waterbowline - more secure if the line is not under load
Yosemite bowline - just learnt this, but end tucks very neatly and easily, useful if there is likely to be no load at times, may replace the Waterbowline (time will tell for me)

Loops in the middle:
Bowline on the bight (doesn't slip, doesn't bind, can make an emergency uncomfortable bosun's chair)
Alpine butterfly - very stable in any direction
Directional figure eight - easy for a trucker's hitch to secure a load
Handcuff knot - to haul someone out, or use your imagination

Hitches:
Clove hitch - very easy, useful for tying on fenders but not much else as can both slip and bind too easily
Cleat hitch - for securing mooring lines (learn to do this properly so it doesn't bind or look like macrame)
Rolling hitch - much better than clove hitch and useful for releasing jammed winches, can be tied under load, good for fenders
Klemheist - good for snubber line as less likely to slip than rolling hitch, load can only be in one direction
Prusic - similar to above, but can take load in either direction
Round turn and two half hitches - easy and reliable way of securing a mooring line around a post

Probably a few more I have forgotten, but I find this combination covers just about everything.
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Old 28-10-2012, 13:15   #27
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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Probably a few more I have forgotten, but I find this combination covers just about everything.
I use the Anchor Bend. It's more secure then a round turn and two half hitches, but it doesn't untie easily after it's been loaded.
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Old 28-10-2012, 13:25   #28
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

Thank you for your knot literacy! Great post!

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
OK here goes with what I have found useful:

End stoppers:
Figure 8 (easy, but can slip easily)
Double overhand (bulkier and more reliable)

Joining line together:
Square (reef knot) - useful as a quick option that can be tied under load, only OK if there is likely to be not much movement
Sheet bend - very quick and easy, can be undone after load, but needs no load to tie
Double sheet bend - good if lines to be joined are very unequal diameter of if better security needed
Carrick - very reliable, particularly good if lines are of a big diameter, can be untied
Double fisherman's - very very reliable, but may not be able to be untied after a big load has applied
Alpine butterfly - most secure if lines are of roughly the same size, can be untied

Loops on an end:
Bowline (learn to tie it blindfolded in your sleep in all 4 directions, it is the knot most used sailing I think)
Waterbowline - more secure if the line is not under load
Yosemite bowline - just learnt this, but end tucks very neatly and easily, useful if there is likely to be no load at times, may replace the Waterbowline (time will tell for me)

Loops in the middle:
Bowline on the bight (doesn't slip, doesn't bind, can make an emergency uncomfortable bosun's chair)
Alpine butterfly - very stable in any direction
Directional figure eight - easy for a trucker's hitch to secure a load
Handcuff knot - to haul someone out, or use your imagination

Hitches:
Clove hitch - very easy, useful for tying on fenders but not much else as can both slip and bind too easily
Cleat hitch - for securing mooring lines (learn to do this properly so it doesn't bind or look like macrame)
Rolling hitch - much better than clove hitch and useful for releasing jammed winches, can be tied under load, good for fenders
Klemheist - good for snubber line as less likely to slip than rolling hitch, load can only be in one direction
Prusic - similar to above, but can take load in either direction
Round turn and two half hitches - easy and reliable way of securing a mooring line around a post

Probably a few more I have forgotten, but I find this combination covers just about everything.
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Old 28-10-2012, 13:49   #29
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

IMHO there are so few knots to learn ... 3, perhaps 4 (?)

BUT I say learn few, but learn them well - so that you can tie them blindfolded, behind your back and when woken up middle of a rainy night. This requirement is often underestimated by budding sailors.

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Old 28-10-2012, 19:09   #30
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Re: Learning Knots - Recommendations

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IMHO there are so few knots to learn ... 3, perhaps 4 (?)

BUT I say learn few, but learn them well - so that you can tie them blindfolded, behind your back and when woken up middle of a rainy night. This requirement is often underestimated by budding sailors.

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+1 Bowline, figure 8, round turn and 2 half hitches and rolling hitch, pretty much does all you need. A bowline is pretty much a clove hitch the other way up.
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