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Old 08-03-2015, 22:15   #106
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Re: Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
You can also 'pre-tie' one of the ends of a line with a twist of one hand then all you have to do is stick the other end through the loop, pull and you have a bowline. Since I can't explain it any better than that I can't google it to find pictures. It was something I learned to do with a munter hitch when climbing and was surprised there was a variation for a bowline.
I am soon off to catch a stupidly early bus for the 25 km trip to the nearest shops and will be back on board in about ten hours. I will tie and photograph the version you describe when I get back. It is neat .

Edited to add: Will do this tomorrow. It has been a long day.
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Old 10-03-2015, 02:10   #107
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Re: Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
You can also 'pre-tie' one of the ends of a line with a twist of one hand then all you have to do is stick the other end through the loop, pull and you have a bowline. Since I can't explain it any better than that I can't google it to find pictures. It was something I learned to do with a munter hitch when climbing and was surprised there was a variation for a bowline.
I think the technique you are referring to may be the one I have photographed below. This nifty method is a little quicker than the standard "rabbit comes out of the hole and around the tree and back in the hole".

Steps 1 & 2
Start the bowline as you would usually with a loop. Grab the standing end end push it through the loop as shown (it only goes one way, the loop would collapse if you tried pushing it through the other way):
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Old 10-03-2015, 02:13   #108
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Re: Knots

Steps 3 & 4
Pass the tail towards you through the newly formed loop as shown.
Fold the tail back and hold it firmly as shown.

Step 5 (no need for a photo)
Just yank on the standing part and you have a bowline.

PS If you preprepare the two initial loops and hide them in one hand, it would probably make a good party trick seemingly just pushing a line though your fist and ending up with a bowline.
Yep, I have definitely spent too much time on the water .
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:51   #109
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Re: Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I think the technique you are referring to may be the one I have photographed below. This nifty method is a little quicker than the standard "rabbit comes out of the hole and around the tree and back in the hole".
I lay the tail over my wrist pointing away from me. Then I wrap my entire hand clockwise around the tail and then grab the standing end and pull it through the loop I have just made. Then I hold on to the loop and wrap the tail around whatever I am tying, tuck it through the loop and pull in the standing part. I can almost do it all one handed.

I am 99% sure that is what you just described but my loops look a bit different—I think its a function of the way I make the loop.


Interestingly if you do the same twist not letting go of the tail end and then after the wrap, grab the tail instead of the standing end, you have a lovely one handed clove hitch perfect for tying into the carabiner as you cling desperately to a rock face
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:13   #110
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Re: Knots

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Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
I lay the tail over my wrist pointing away from me. Then I wrap my entire hand clockwise around the tail and then grab the standing end and pull it through the loop I have just made. Then I hold on to the loop and wrap the tail around whatever I am tying, tuck it through the loop and pull in the standing part. I can almost do it all one handed.

I am 99% sure that is what you just described but my loops look a bit different—I think its a function of the way I make the loop.
Really nice variation. I have just been playing with it. Your second photo initially confused me with the tail seemingly being shown on the outside of the loop, but I have now worked out you presented the loop an odd way (I see I am not the only one good at sneaky photos ).

Yours is a variation of the technique I showed. You are tying the knot in a different 'direction' and employing the hand very differently to form the loop, but in essence the two methods follow the same principle of forming a loop within a loop then just poking the tail through.

I like yours better .

My instructions for how I have interpreted your method are:
- Lay the tail across your left palm from right to left
- Wrap your hand clockwise around the tail, keeping your left thumb lightly against the standing part as you do so
- Use that thumb to then push the standing part through the loop you have just formed (don't allow the loop to twist)
- Push the tail away from you through the resulting loop
- Bend the tail over and grip it exactly as in my last photo
- Yank on the standing end

Is this what you do?

SWL
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:20   #111
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Re: Knots

It's more like this:

- Lay the tail across your right wrist from left to right
- Wrap your hand clockwise around the tail, keeping your left thumb lightly against the tail as you do so
-grab the standing end with your fingers and pull back through the loop around your wrist
-feed the tail through the loop in your hand left to right
- Yank on the standing end
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:33   #112
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Re: Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
It's more like this:

- Lay the tail across your right wrist from left to right
- Wrap your hand clockwise around the tail, keeping your left thumb lightly against the tail as you do so
-grab the standing end with your fingers and pull back through the loop around your wrist
-feed the tail through the loop in your hand left to right
- Yank on the standing end
If you are using your right hand, I would call the motion with your right hand anticlockwise.

(Using you left hand and going clockwise around the tail as I did produces a mirror image of your knot).

Anyway, you can only really move you hand one way, so it doesn't matter what you call it .
Your variation is a really nice one.

SWL
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Old 17-03-2015, 02:03   #113
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Re: Knots

Guys,

Which one is the best Knott to put a loop in the middle of the rope that won't slip left or right?

I'm looking at running a drogue out the back for emergency steering, so I need to attach the drogue rope to a bridle which then goes to both winches on either side if the cockpit.
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Old 17-03-2015, 02:06   #114
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Re: Knots

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Guys,

Which one is the best Knott to put a loop in the middle of the rope that won't slip left or right?

I'm looking at running a drogue out the back for emergency steering, so I need to attach the drogue rope to a bridle which then goes to both winches on either side if the cockpit.
An Alpine Butterfly Loop.

Would you like super easy instructions?

SWL

Edited to add: Thinking about it, in this application the loop will have tension on the loop and one standing end at a time and it will jam awfully and would need to be cut off. Do you need a knot that will untie? If so, I would need to put my thinking cap on (not many loops can have either of the three alternatives under tension, ie either end or the loop)
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Old 17-03-2015, 02:11   #115
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Re: Knots

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
An Alpine Butterfly Loop.

Would you like super easy instructions?

SWL
I'd prefer 'super easy' over the alternative, yes.
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Old 17-03-2015, 02:32   #116
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Re: Knots

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I'd prefer 'super easy' over the alternative, yes.

Here goes .

I am right handed, so I wrap this around my left hand. Lay the line across your palm as shown then take a turn around your fingers:
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Old 17-03-2015, 02:35   #117
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Re: Knots

Continue looping it fully around the back of your middle two fingers, then bring the line back to the front and cross it over your palm again:
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Old 17-03-2015, 02:36   #118
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Re: Knots

Pull on the loop at the top to lengthen it and simultaneously bring it down:
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Old 17-03-2015, 02:38   #119
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Re: Knots

Tuck the loop under as shown (nearly done ):
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Old 17-03-2015, 02:41   #120
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Re: Knots

Take your fingers away and tighten it up.

There are six different ways it can be tightened. I use this one (the other common one is crossing the lines over at the front of the knot as it is being tightened so you end up with an x in the middle of the knot instead of an x at the back):
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