Just When You Think You're Safe . . . CRASH !

[ozskipper]

Wow.. that's fantastic. Lucky it wasn't Anchorage marine... Never again with that mob. (if they still exist). Had a very bad run after losing a mast many years ago with them.

I love that coast guard station at Port Stephens. I like to pop up and throw a few dollars in the tin when ever I am up that way.

[ChannelIslander]

Whenever I read a story of disaster like this the author always becomes defensive. What could be the motive in posting the account if not to learn from others what you could have done better? In most cases I have read, the OP gets bitter and defensive and refuses to accept (or doesn't hear) the wisdom from others more experienced and knowledgeable.

In this case it's obvious that the OP anchored too close to the beach and shouldn't have had a stern line out. One poster with local knowledge explained the exact details of how one should anchor there, citing a respected guidebook. Many others gave general reasons for not having a stern hook out, for being in a deeper location for more security and more time to react. Nevertheless the OP insists that he did everything right.

If When I screw up and post here about it, will someone please remind me that I screwed up with negative results and now would be a great time to learn from others what I should have done differently.

[Ex-Calif]

Read post #1...

Doesn't look like Mr B was asking for advice on anchoring. Sometimes one wants to post a tragic story so his online virtual friends who would understand the loss will say, "cheer up Mr B we feel for you and we too hope your insurance company doesn't write off the boat. Glad everyone is safe!"

Then someone asks, how well did you anchor?

And you know what is coming.

I probably would have replied, "I don't wanna talk anout it"

Mr B explained why he anchored where he did. I can't say I would have done differently. If I had planned to be in that bay I may have had the cruising guide. Mr B did not plan to be in that bay. It was a delivery trip but as someone said, maybe he should have motored around to a wireless zone to ask us what he should do. Problem with that is it woulda been three days of anchor-threading and there still would be no conclusion...

[sctpc]

Glad all's getting fixed and your both OK what's the timeframe for fixing the damage?

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by sctpc

Glad all's getting fixed and your both OK what's the timeframe for fixing the damage?

About 3 weeks before I get an answer from the assesor and the insurance company whether they will fix it or write it off,

About 3 or 4 months if they go ahead and fix it,

When I wreck some thing, I dont do it in half measures,

It needs to be brought up to Australian standards first,
USA and EU dont come any where near Australian standards.

They dont have the Southern Ocean, Tasman Sea and the Bass Straight on their doorstep.
Even Port Phillip Bay is a dangerous place to sail on.
Thats why we have the higher standards,

Perth to Melbourne across the Southern Ocean, 90 foot waves are quite common,
Bass Straight, even ships dont sail across that when its bad,
I got wrecked in the Tasman Sea, By weather thats not normal any where else,
The Tasman Sea has waves all the way from Antartica and or South America, and can be real nasty on a bad day,

My boat was going to be moored at Yaringa on Western Port Bay in Victoria,,
The entrance to Western Port Bay is the Junction of the Southern Ocean, Tasman Sea and Bass Straight,

For those in the Northern Hemisphere, Think of the top of the North Atlantic Ocean, or the North Sea and double it,

A navel Architect has to redesign the Hulls and then it has to be stiffened with ribs and stringers, which it doesnt have now,

All wiring, electrics, Pumps and electronics will have to be replaced, and changed to 240 Volts,
The inner hulls have to be cut out to allow access to the outer hulls,

Above deck, sails, mast, solar panels, Etc, undamaged,
Below the deck, very very sad,

Yes, I am glad we are Okay, it could have been a lot worse. I think we were very lucky, now that I sit back and think about it on solid ground, and with out the pressures that I was under at the time,

I still think I did the best I could at the time and under the circumstances,

Sailing or motoring around the outside of the Island was not an option, as the steering could have broken again,

I dont even want to think about what could have happened doing that,

The dodgy steering was why I didnt sail to Port Stephens in the storm with excess of 35 knot winds and an all ships warning that was coming, and that was only 3 or 4 sailing hours away.

[Ex-Calif]

Did you know about all these standards upgrades in advance of purchase? Seems like it is gonna add some significant cost even without the anchoring incident.

Man. We gotta love this stuff. Otherwise why would we do it?

[sctpc]

So you coming back to Melbourne or staying there till it's sorted

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by sctpc

So you coming back to Melbourne or staying there till it's sorted

I am at home now, Came back in a hire car, with a lot of gear that would have grown legs, some of it already was missing,

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Did you know about all these standards upgrades in advance of purchase? Seems like it is gonna add some significant cost even without the anchoring incident.

Man. We gotta love this stuff. Otherwise why would we do it?

No I didnt, I thought the CE approval for Blue water was enough,

Tho I did think when I lifted the bilge boards in Fiji, that they were very light on to what is normal in Australia.

The upgrade is only required if you damage your boat and insurance get involved,
They want it certified when its repaired and the Australian standards then apply.

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by Mr B

edit

A navel Architect has to redesign the Hulls and then it has to be stiffened with ribs and stringers, which it doesn't have now

Mr B
interested to read your post. I may be overly suspicious but much of what you are being told, particularly the bit I quoted, can be construed as setting you up. They seem to be telling you that Gemini's are hopeless junk. I'm not sure they are that bad, and they may in fact be of adequate strength. I'd be getting 'second opinions' as it looks to me like someone wants a load of work out of this. The way its heading it will be written off, someone will get a bargain from the insurance company and repair it, perhaps quite well, for a modest amount and then make a killing on re-sale. Keep you eyes wide open.... Maybe they are all honest, but cant hurt to verify.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Read post #1...Doesn't look like Mr B was asking for advice on anchoring. Sometimes one wants to post a tragic story so his online virtual friends who would understand the loss will say, "cheer up Mr B we feel for you and we too hope your insurance company doesn't write off the boat. Glad everyone is safe!"

As I said in an earlier post, it seems to me that Ex-Calif fails to see the value of this forum, which is to learn from each other about how we'd deal with real life situations at sea. And it's especially strange given his position as a 'moderator emeritus'.

It's not only education & sharing either; the commercial value of this site is directly linked to the information contained within. If I owned the thing, I'd be much happier seeing the moderators encouraging input on all nautical issues arising in posts.

OTOH, if all we're allowed to do is express sympathy, what a tedious site this would be.

Ex-Calif also says that the OP hadn't planned to stop in the bay, suggesting this as a reason for the subsequent events. Ex-Calif must have had a charmed time at sea, because that is the one place where you always must expect the unexpected - and plan for such events as best you can.

Originally Posted by ChannelIslander

Whenever I read a story of disaster like this the author always becomes defensive. What could be the motive in posting the account if not to learn from others what you could have done better? In most cases I have read, the OP gets bitter and defensive and refuses to accept (or doesn't hear) the wisdom from others more experienced and knowledgeable.

I share the dismay of ChannelIslander about the manner in which the OP has handled the advice freely given - and given in the right spirit. None of us knows it all; that's why I visit this site and I doubt I'm an orphan. Remember, no-one has to accept any advice - we just consider and sift according to our own experiences.

Bottom line Ex-Calif - no-one can post on this or any other website without expecting responses, and those responses ought to be valued and taken in the spirit in which they were given. And if the OP is dismissive, other visitors to the site would doubtless find the info useful.

I do anyway, and say thanks to those who have thus contributed. It's helped me.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by At sea

As I said in an earlier post, it seems to me that Ex-Calif fails to see the value of this forum, which is to learn from each other about how we'd deal with real life situations at sea. And it's especially strange given his position as a 'moderator emeritus'.

If the "grand" title intimitaded you, I truly apologize. Most people don't know what emeritus means anyway. I thought it was something about my great cooking skills. Or is that Emeril?

Btw - I inherited the title when I retired but it's OK - I fixed it, just for you!

However, having spent a couple of years voluntarily moderating this three ring circus with the scars to prove it, I will hang on to my retired mod title - heavy on the retired.

Not for the "lofty" title but to show I did my small part to make this place the great place it is.

Originally Posted by At sea

It's not only education & sharing either; the commercial value of this site is directly linked to the information contained within. If I owned the thing, I'd be much happier seeing the moderators encouraging input on all nautical issues arising in posts.

The moderators work to a set of rules guided by some principles. I missed the commercial debates in mod school or was perhaps absent.

So I conclude the principles are what makes this place great. And a few hundred thousand folks agree - Yay!

And if Andy makes a few pennies along the way - Hooray!

Originally Posted by At sea

OTOH, if all we're allowed to do is express sympathy, what a tedious site this would be.

I certainly did not state that - Facts not in evidence.

Originally Posted by At sea

Ex-Calif also says that the OP hadn't planned to stop in the bay, suggesting this as a reason for the subsequent events.

Presumptive!

Originally Posted by At sea

I share the dismay of ChannelIslander about the manner in which the OP has handled the advice freely given - and given in the right spirit.

Dismay?

Originally Posted by At sea

Remember, no-one has to accept any advice - we just consider and sift according to our own experiences.

Unless they want to dismay you?

Originally Posted by At sea

Bottom line Ex-Calif - no-one can post on this or any other website without expecting responses, and those responses ought to be valued and taken in the spirit in which they were given. And if the OP is dismissive, other visitors to the site would doubtless find the info useful.

I do anyway, and say thanks to those who have thus contributed. It's helped me.

At Sea - I don't know you. I would never presume to understand you background or experience. I would never try to presume what you or anyone else is thinking.

Originally Posted by At sea

As I said in an earlier post, it seems to me that Ex-Calif fails to see the value of this forum,

7000+ posts, 4 1/2 years, ~2 years moderating and you are probably right. I don't get it!

Maybe by post 14,000 I'll have a clue.

(BTW-Do you have any new facts, evidence or insights into this anchoring situation you'd like to share with the worldwide audience or are you just happy picking on me? Damn, now "I" need a hanky...))

[webejammin]

OUCH !!

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

7000+ posts, 4 1/2 years, ~2 years moderating and you are probably right. I don't get it! Maybe by post 14,000 I'll have a clue.
(BTW-Do you have any new facts, evidence or insights into this anchoring situation you'd like to share with the worldwide audience or are you just happy picking on me?

Strewth! How's your hernia pal? That's one post I won't bother responding to in any detail.

But wow, what a CV. You must be right, whatever the question was!

Do I have any wisdoms to share on the situation Mr B faced? Well, no. That's why I have read the thread, to learn and, as I said earlier, I thank those who have contributed valuable thoughts on the subject.

And I wasn't picking on you (boo hoo); I simply disagreed with your view that, because the OP didn't ask for opinions, posters ought not to offer them. With the volcanic response that received, perhaps it's a good thing you are emeritus.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by At sea

Strewth! How's your hernia pal? That's one post I won't be responding to in any detail for fear of mistakingly hitting the nuclear button.

But wow, what a CV. You must be right, whatever the question was!

Do I have any wisdoms to share on the situation Mr B faced? Well, no. That's why I have read the thread, to learn and, as I said earlier, I thank those who have contributed valuable thoughts on the subject.

And I wasn't picking on you (boo hoo); I simply disagreed with your view that, because the OP didn't ask for opinions, posters ought not to offer them. With the volcanic response that received, perhaps it's a good thing you are emeritus.

One of the billions of things I have learned (impressive cv notwithstanding - LOL) is that the written word is a failed media for imparting tone and voice. I don't have the vocabulary for it, for sure!

I am certainly not trying to be "volcanic" Or "nuclear" (sigh.. )

Aplogies if I am pissing you off.

And I am not trying to change your mind about anything. This whole drift started when someone indicated that Mr B had some sort of obligation to share his story or that having posted it he "must" accept a thorough critique of his performance!

My only point is that in post 1 Mr B did not talk about anchoring at all! I then applauded him for providing detail when asked (we all learn) and while I have formed my opinions I don't think its imprtant to lecture Mr B with my opinion. It rapidly becomes a self defense exercise for him. Especially when someone says, "Mr. B is not taking his medicine (our sage advice) like a big boy." Mr B was there. Mr B made the calls. I have no idea what Mr B has learned or has not learned except he hates his ground tackle and believes he made the right calls.

Again, sorry for being volcanic - cheers!