Jordan Series Drogue experience

[pacifica]

One more thing: we had quite frequent seas impacting the stern with a mighty bang, breaking aboard, occasionally filling the centre cockpit, and swirling around like a frontload washing machine against the little windows in our companionway door. No leaks.No damage.
Infinitely preferable to being knocked down or rolled, dismasted, or injured.

[RDW]

Excellent post. I made my own drogue from Sailrite. I did use Dymetra. I hope I never use it.
RDW

[ontherocks83]

Phenomenal story. Thank you for posting the account. I really liked the way you came up with retrieving the drogue. Definitely something to consider.

[Suijin]

Great report. I've been looking at one of these and all the info you provided is golden.

Someone else asked and I wondered about it too and didn't see you address it; why do you feel that @4 knots would be too fast? In my experience in those circumstances, you want your boat moving with the water/weather at 4-6 knots as it provides the most comfortable motion, the least stress on the rig, boat, and gear in the water, and ultimately the safest ride, particularly in a long period steady sea state with those wave heights.

Using a less elastic line seems like it comes with it's own issues, such as the maximum momentary stress on your hardware and perhaps more wear to the deployed gear.

Every situation is different and every boat responds differently. It's great to read reports like this which help one to understand the dynamics of what is going on and make gear and deployment decisions based on one's own boat and circumstances. Thanks!

[RDW]

As far as the stress apllied to the boat, I have thought that I would attach the bridle to my two stern cleats and then lead it to a near by winch and tighten the tail as tight as possible. I would enjoy hearing comments on whether this would relieve any stress to the cleats.
I sent a note to Sailrite to see if they would comment on the fraying and would they offer any remedy.
Again, an excellent post and discussion.
RDW

[Lake-Effect]

(also loving this thread. I read alot about the theory behind Jordan drogues vs sea anchors and chutes, when they first came out, but it's always great to have a real-world report, especially one as detailed as Mike's. )

[pacifica]

The Jordan Drogue Attachment Issue: a first world problem- lol.

I welded a 3/8" tang on top of the samson posts on each quarter( and those posts are through-deck with doubler plates and attached to the hull below). The spliced thimbles of the drogue are shackled to the tangs.

However , a friend on a 37' steel sailboat ,who had to deploy his jordan drogue 5 times in the S Indian ocean, has had good luck with welded cleats .Then he is able to adjust the bridle arm lengths to change the yacht's angle a bit. He once rode for 5 days to his Jordan drogue.

[goboatingnow]

I have no experience with JSDs. But I have two experiences of towing warps in major Atlantic storms. Both were nominally F10 gusting F 11. Seas were fairly regular occasionally breaking with wave heights estimated over 30 feet

We deployed in excess of 350 feet of 1 " three strand in a loop with both ends tied to the aft cleats, the line was weighted with 4 5 litres water containers ie 20kg. In a effort to keep the loop buried ( from a previous experience )

This slowed the boat , a jeanneau 42 ( and 39) from surfing speeds, which the AP couldn't handle , to about 5kn which the AP did handle.

It was noticeable how much force was on the line , the best feature was when the boat attempted to slew off to one side , the line on that side tightened and that was enough to counteract the slew and then the AP corrected the understeer.

This allowed the watch to hunker under the sprayhood and conserve energy ( it was freakin cold too ) whereas previously it required active aggressive helmjng.

It was quite a revelation the first successful time I used it. I am ensure as to the success of the weights. I do think something is necessary. When we tried it before some wave actions threw the line forward.


Retrieving it required a winch initially !!


Dave

[CptJ-GS50]

What an excellent series of Posts, I have been looking at the JSD system for a couple years preparing for my extended cruising. All the input leaves me with not much to say other than how happy I am to have found this site. Last night I watched an excellent You-Tube video comparing 7 different types of "Sea-Brakes".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4l3CbgUCU8

I found it very interesting.

[Southern Star]

Mike, a fantastic post that has resulted in a terrific thread. Out of interest, how are you proposing to attach the cones to the dyneema line? Secondly, do you believe ti will still be necessary to go to a reduced diameter line for the final portion of the JSD (as is specified with 3 strand nylon)?

Brad

[ontherocks83]

Mike,

after you deployed the drogue how did the overall motion of the boat change? Reading other accounts people state that after deploying a series drogue the motion of the boat decreases substantially to the point it feels like the waves got smaller. Did you notice a decrease in movement overall? I know you were in a cat so it may be different than a mono but I'd love to get your take on it.

[captain58sailin]

I suppose this will bring a storm of a different kind. I was raised, that if you encounter too rough weather that the safest strategy is go head on into the seas, or quarter them if they are standing too steep. On this forum, I have frequently read of vessels here that put the seas to the stern, which I believe is a most dangerous thing to do, yet, I have yet to see a thread relating to the time they pitch poled due to a following sea, perhaps those vessels never survived to tell the tale.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

I suppose this will bring a storm of a different kind. I was raised, that if you encounter too rough weather that the safest strategy is go head on into the seas, or quarter them if they are standing too steep. On this forum, I have frequently read of vessels here that put the seas to the stern, which I believe is a most dangerous thing to do, yet, I have yet to see a thread relating to the time they pitch poled due to a following sea, perhaps those vessels never survived to tell the tale.

I'm not sure why you perceive the stern to be that weak. In many modern boats running off with the hydrodynamic efficiencies of modern rudders means this is often a very controllable situation.

Dave

[Geoff54]

Originally Posted by CptJ-GS50

What an excellent series of Posts, I have been looking at the JSD system for a couple years preparing for my extended cruising. All the input leaves me with not much to say other than how happy I am to have found this site. Last night I watched an excellent You-Tube video comparing 7 different types of "Sea-Brakes".

I found it very interesting.

Although not completely without value, they only used a short, high mounted line without a bridle and then seemed suprised the drogues tended to skip or ride high in the water.

Also, did you notice the moaning and negative attitude to all the drogues, except the Shark, which they just happen to sell? Do you think when they kicked the JSD over, they deliberately tangled it so it didn't perform as well as it might?

There seems to be only three things to learn from this video: It's a good idea to weight any drogue; despite the mishandling, the JSD still worked well; if you lauch a drouge on a single short line, you can't expect it work properly. Nothing much new there.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by pacifica

My Jordan Series drogue cones were a little frayed after 2 deployments near Chile, so I heatsealed all the edges with a soldering gun. The last deployment was for 3 days last June, S of the Aleutians, and there was no more fraying.
36' monohull, 10 tons displ. Sailrite kit 124 cones.
1.3 to 1.6 knots under drogue.

That reinforces my thought that sizing for multihulls may need to be more conservative. We used kits from the same maker, but after 2 deployments yours were lightly frayed, mine after 2-3 hours all but disintegrated. I can only think that the cause is the difference in speed while lying to the drogue. In your case 1.3 to 1.6 knots, in our case 3.5 to 4.5 knots.