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Old 10-10-2017, 09:38   #256
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
But I copied down their advertising description (from eBay - 'englishseadog' is one of OceanBrake's monikers): "7.2oz yellow polyester/dacron, 3x12mm tapes + taped mouth and exit..."

Cones look good but I'm surprised they don't meet their own description.

The mouth and exit are "taped" (seperate fabric), not simply bent over to be hemmed. Hemming via bending is not easy on a curved surface and the exit hem would need to be deeply snipped into to enable it to be folded over, weakening it.

OceanBrake's taped hem looks well done. Below I have attached a cropped image of the one shown above to enlarge the view of the tape.

SWL
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:46   #257
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
164 cones ... Both edges are hemmed.
Then your last post states:

The mouth and exit are "taped" (seperate fabric), not ... hemmed.

It's difficult to tell from photo, which is why I questioned it. This detail seems very important, especially when advertised as "taped', not just "hemmed".
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:50   #258
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Nice! Thanks for new photo, SL, much appreciated. Our posts (or at least your addition of photo to your last post) have crossed.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:09   #259
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
Then your last post states:

The mouth and exit are "taped" (seperate fabric), not ... hemmed.

It's difficult to tell from photo, which is why I questioned it. This detail seems very important, especially when advertised as "taped', not just "hemmed".
Sorry, my fault for the confusion. To put it accurately, the edge has been hemmed with bias tape, not hemmed by turning it over.

For those of you unfamiliar with bias tape, it is fabric that has been cut in long strips at a 45° angle to the weave ie "on the bias". This gives it some stretch, so it can curve smoothly around the edge it is binding. It is cut roughly twice the width required, as it is doubled over. When sewn, each edge ends up with 2 layers on either side.

I have attached a rough diagram of the construction, which should help make my explanation clearer.

I was pleased to see the construction. There are many shortcuts that could have been taken here, but this is what I would consider a "proper job" .
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:26   #260
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

LOL - too much info! The close-up photo you posted above looks great.

Also, thanks for confirming you've chosen Acera - me too, in time, methinks.
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Old 10-10-2017, 13:33   #261
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Adding a few additions to the reading list (these are presented in no particular order):


Series Drogue, ocean survival

https://www.morganscloud.com/2017/03...lity-problems/

A Jordan Series Drogue can be a lifesaver – Yachting World

http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/Drogue-Instructions.pdf

http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/DrogueReport.pdf

http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/Series%2...tion%20PDF.pdf

Jordan Series Drogue

http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pd...riesdrogue.pdf

http://www.allatsea.net/slowing-devi...heapo-sailors/

Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base | Using Parachutes, Sea Anchors and Drogues to Cope with Heavy Weather – Over 130 Documented Case Histories

http://www.setsail.com/sts.pdf

https://svnereida.com/blog/3744-31st...-series-drogue

https://www.hisse-et-oh.com/system/a...pdf?1503217041

If you have purchased a pack of cones

http://www.nineofcups.com/Articles/Seriesdrogue.pdf

http://www.witnesscats.net/downloads...onsruction.pdf

A Jordan Series Drogue for Jester

Designers Notes | Ocean Brake


A few CF threads found:

Jordan Series Drogue experience (this thread)

Jordan series Drogue Attachment

Jordan Series Drogue Cone Shape?

Acera vs Dyneema & Jordan Series Drogues

Attaching a Jordan Series Drogue.. How?

SWL
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Old 10-10-2017, 13:48   #262
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I am pleased with the quality. Heavy dacron has been used (sold as 7oz). Both edges are hemmed.
They do look nice, very nice. Both heavier and better made than mine. Looking at the picture I have two questions:

What is the line of stitching around the middle of the cone for? I can see it passing over the black tape perhaps a little closer to the small opening of the cone than to its large open end.

How was the joining of the ends of the cut 'C' shapes of fabric done? Were there two rows of stitching at the fabric overlap or just one? Were the cones cut so that the edges that were to be sewn together were parallel and perpendicular to the threadlines in the fabric, or were the edges cut at 45 degrees to the threadlines? How was the taping handled at the hem?

That is more than two questions, sorry.

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Old 10-10-2017, 14:30   #263
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Hi Wsmurdoch
I have answered in blue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmurdoch View Post
They do look nice, very nice. Both heavier and better made than mine. Looking at the picture I have two questions:

What is the line of stitching around the middle of the cone for? I can see it passing over the black tape perhaps a little closer to the small opening of the cone than to its large open end.

It passes through all three black tapes. It terminates on the end ones by going back and forth. The purpose is unclear.

How was the joining of the ends of the cut 'C' shapes of fabric done? Were there two rows of stitching at the fabric overlap or just one?

The seams were stitched back and forth at each end. In addition, the seam was finger pressed to one side and top stitched back and forth a short distance at the opening end for extra security.

Were the cones cut so that the edges that were to be sewn together were parallel and perpendicular to the threadlines in the fabric, or were the edges cut at 45 degrees to the threadlines?

It is difficult to tell with Dacron. If I had to hazard a guess I would say the seam edges were cut at an angle on the few I have looked at. This may not be universal.

How was the taping handled at the hem?

The bias tape was sewn as in my last diagram prior to the seam being sewn. This is why I could easily check the exact construction of the bias tape.
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Old 10-10-2017, 15:29   #264
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

By the way, if anyone is making these cones on their own, the quickest way to cut bias tape is using a rotary cutter and plastic ruler that are used commonly for patchwork.

There are then ingenious little tools available where you can feed the cut strip of fabric through and iron it as it emerges to produce bias tape that is ready to use. This simplifies the process, although I must say that finishing the edges in this manner makes an already labour intensive process even more laborious.

This is a bias tape making tool. Yes, I keep one on board. You never know when you may have an emergency and need one :
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Old 10-10-2017, 17:47   #265
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
164 cones have arrived from OceanBrake in the UK.



I am pleased with the quality. Heavy dacron has been used (sold as 7oz). Both edges are hemmed. The price was roughly half that from Ace Sailmakers in the US, calculated using current conversion rates.



I will be using Acera for the line: roughly 1/3 each of 8, 10 and 12 mm to meet the strength requirements for a vessel of our displacement.



This is how the cones look:


On the OceanBrake website they advertise “Our series drogue cones are manufactured from a 4.2 ounce nylon fabric.” Was your order a special order?

Also, I see their prices roughly equivalent to Ace Sailmakers. Did you buy from a third party?
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Old 10-10-2017, 18:31   #266
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
On the OceanBrake website they advertise “Our series drogue cones are manufactured from a 4.2 ounce nylon fabric.” Was your order a special order?...
I asked about this and OceanBrake said they use only 7.2oz dacron - haven't used 4.2oz for quite a few years (5 years?). They also told me they would update their website - clearly they haven't done so yet.
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:11   #267
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
On the OceanBrake website they advertise “Our series drogue cones are manufactured from a 4.2 ounce nylon fabric.” Was your order a special order?

Also, I see their prices roughly equivalent to Ace Sailmakers. Did you buy from a third party?
Lucky for OceanBrake that I did not see that their website states 4.2 oz nylon is used, as I would not have bothered contacting them .

My order was not a special order, I just enquired directly from OceanBrake about construction and price. I was quoted £2.76 per cone (currently converts to US$ 3.64) for 7.1 oz polyester with taped entry and exit. I ordered directly from OceanBrake based on this.

Ace Sailmakers quoted US$7 per cone for "6.5 oz Dacron doubled at hem". For a few days only the price was reduced to $6.30, but I had to order instantly. It was not clear if both the entry and exit were hemmed.

So Ace's price is roughly double (92% higher to be precise if I ordered from them today).

SWL

PS Delivery needs to be added to this, but it is unfair to compare the two quotes, as one was from the US and the other from the UK.
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:30   #268
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
By the way, if anyone is making these cones on their own, the quickest way to cut bias tape is using a rotary cutter and plastic ruler that are used commonly for patchwork.

There are then ingenious little tools available where you can feed the cut strip of fabric through and iron it as it emerges to produce bias tape that is ready to use. This simplifies the process, although I must say that finishing the edges in this manner makes an already labour intensive process even more laborious.

This is a bias tape making tool. Yes, I keep one on board. You never know when you may have an emergency and need one :
I wonder if a tape edge binder attachment for your sewing machine would eliminate the step of ironing the edge tape before sewing it on.

I used to be in the wearables business, and for some reason kept this sewing machine attachment.

Also, I was wondering if another option - for those making the drogue from scratch - would be to use a sewing machine edge rolling attachment to eliminate the need for having to cut and sew on a tape.

My apologies if this was already discussed.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:35   #269
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

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I wonder if a tape edge binder attachment for your sewing machine would eliminate the step of ironing the edge tape before sewing it on.

I used to be in the wearables business, and for some reason kept this sewing machine attachment.

Also, I was wondering if another option - for those making the drogue from scratch - would be to use a sewing machine edge rolling attachment to eliminate the need for having to cut and sew on a tape.

My apologies if this was already discussed.
I have never seen one of these attachments, but it makes sense that someone has come up with this for commercial work. That is probably what they use for sewing these cones. Making bias tape is a slow process otherwise.

I have not sewn a rolled hem in years and from memory the sewing machine foot just turned the fabric over a tiny amount and I occasionally had problems with the edge slipping out as a result. I guess the result would depend on the quality of your equipment and the skill of the operator .

The appeal of the bias tape is that it is securely stitched an good distance from the edge. All the edges are well tucked in, minimising the risk of an edge slipping out. It would be interesting to see what Ace Sailmakers do.

SWL
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Old 14-11-2017, 11:57   #270
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Re: Jordan Series Drogue experience

The Acera for our series drogue arrived today in a surprisingly small box.

For our boat's weight, the original specifications called for 35m each of 13mm, 19mm and 22-25mm double braid polyester (minimum breaking force of very roughly 4000, 8000 & 11000-13000 kgf), plus the bridle.

I ordered a generous amount of the Acera to allow for splicing and the bridle: 40m each of 8mm and 12mm Acera and 60m of the 12mm (minimum breaking force of 6650, 10400 & 14980 kgf).

I knew the volume and weight would be low, but it felt amazingly handling this quantity. The bundle is small (I threw an orange in the photo to give some idea of size). The total weight is just 7.3kg. This should make the drogue easy to store and deploy.

Price was excellent: 441€ (approx £395 or US$520).

Does anyone have any tips for the construction? I will add some chafe protection to the bridle where it passes through our panama leads on the stern. Is it OK to just connect the lengths and bridle with eye splices or is extra chafe protection needed there too?
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