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mpc7002 · 29-07-2010, 05:22

Except my Hobie, all the boats I have borrowed or rented have had a roller furling jib/genoa. The jib lines have always been tied on with a bowline knot. This past weekend I bought a small hunter of my own. It comes with a nice complement of sails, but no furler. The current owner has a set of jib lines already attached to each of the jib, and two genoas.

My question is, wouldn't it be easier to tie the jib lines to a shackle or snap shackle, and leave all the jib lines in place on deck, than to re-run lines if i change from say a jib to a 135 genoa?

Troubadour52993 · 29-07-2010, 05:38

Typically if you have a light air genoa with light air sheets, they are tied on to reduce weight. I had "standard" and "light" sheets with Tylaska shackles to attach to the standard #1, #2, #3 jibs on a Beneteau 375 for racing. On my current boat with roller furling, it's not worth the expense/weight/chafe. The roller furling sail has a grommet instead of a clew ring, which would require quite a large shackle.

bloodhunter · 29-07-2010, 08:47

mpc,
problem with shackles and snapshackles comes when you go forward to douse the sail and it's flogging a bit in moderate or heavy air. Bad enough to get smacked by the bowline, getting hit by a snapshackle could cause some real damage

**Dockhead** · 29-07-2010, 09:04

Can rip up the sail, too. You do NOT want sharp pieces of metal at the clew of any sail. Just tie the sheets on with bowlines.

thinwater · 29-07-2010, 09:30

Yeah, you can use a shackle. On my last boat (Sail Delmarva: My beloved Stiletto, Cherokee Sun, is... sold.) I used a small SS carabiner for the jibs (3) for 18 years and never had a problem. I did watch my head on windy days.

A lot depends on the size of the boat and the loads. I wouldn't DARE do that on my new boat. The sucker would be deadly and the 150% would beat the crap out of the mast on a tack. The ones on the chute are bad enough.

If the boat is <4,000 pounds, go for it and see. A small screw shackle would be a good choise. If the gromet is too big, attach a short spectra sling. I've done that many times.

bewitched · 29-07-2010, 22:38

Don't use shackles or snap shackles for the reasons pointed out earlier.

There's no real reason that I can see to have separate sheets for each headsail. There is however one compelling reason to use a single set for all headsails: If you have a twin luff groove you can tack change.

daddle · 30-07-2010, 00:42

Carabiner: Nope, it can clip itself onto lifelines or shrouds all by itself.
Snap shackle: Nope, opens by flogging or catching the pin on something.

You could use a high-tech shackle. But why? The head smacking danger is real. They are used on fully crewed race boats because firstly the genoa clew should will be out of control during tacks or douses, and second they pass thru the deck blocks to be rerun as needed by the after crew.

There's a reason cruisers fasten sheets with bowlines: There's no better way.

I wouldn't store sails with sheets attached because they're often wet. Proper sheets are expensive: I'd rather have two very nice pairs of sheets. The bowline should take only 5 seconds to tie (in the dark, behind your back, with one hand)

It's also nice to reverse the sheets end-for-end to even out the wear, assuming they're not stripped.

**Dockhead** · 30-07-2010, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by daddle

Carabiner: Nope, it can clip itself onto lifelines or shrouds all by itself.
Snap shackle: Nope, opens by flogging or catching the pin on something.

You could use a high-tech shackle. But why? The head smacking danger is real. They are used on fully crewed race boats because firstly the genoa clew should will be out of control during tacks or douses, and second they pass thru the deck blocks to be rerun as needed by the after crew.

There's a reason cruisers fasten sheets with bowlines: There's no better way.

I wouldn't store sails with sheets attached because they're often wet. Proper sheets are expensive: I'd rather have two very nice pairs of sheets. The bowline should take only 5 seconds to tie (in the dark, behind your back, with one hand)

It's also nice to reverse the sheets end-for-end to even out the wear, assuming they're not stripped.

+1

I don't understand why people so much want to buy more bits of gear, which are not needed. We have to buy enough stuff which is needed; why go further?

Anything other than a bowline hitch for attaching headsail sheets to the sail is going to have severe disadvantages. Just tie 'em on and forget about it.

Another pet peeve of mine is chain hooks for attaching snubbers. Why in the world is this needed? Does it take you more than four seconds to tie a rolling hitch? What a useless bit of gear. Puts wear and stress on the chain, can release unexpectedly, in all respects worse than a simple rolling hitch. Yet cruisers buy thousands of them for some bizzarre reason.

Curmudgeon · 01-08-2010, 17:32

Actually if you have a cutter, a double length sheet attached with a Lark's Head is preferable to a bowline on a roller furling genoa. Goes through easier when you tack.
But for hanked on sails I would use single length sheets with bowlines.

I'd like to see someone tie a bowline with one hand. If you can do it, put it on youtube and post a link here lol.

Healer52 · 01-08-2010, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Actually if you have a cutter, a double length sheet attached with a Lark's Head is preferable to a bowline on a roller furling genoa. Goes through easier when you tack.
But for hanked on sails I would use single length sheets with bowlines.

I'd like to see someone tie a bowline with one hand. If you can do it, put it on youtube and post a link here lol.

Learned how to as a scout... so did a lot of other folks:

one-handed bowline - Google Search