Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

[Kenomac]

This Island Packet is one tough boat. Can your boat survive this kind of punishment? Still think that having a protected rudder doesn't matter? Will a spade rudder survive this sort of punishment?

I think not.

For those folks who are still trying to figure out the differences between the "bluewater boats" and the not so bluewater, I think this video demonstrates the difference. Could your boat take hits like the one in the video and still survive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44QjXCvFbI0

[Canibul]

which part of that are you referring to as 'blue water'? What part of being in deep water threatens a rudder?

Seems to me what you need here is a tough coastal cruiser. They don't have dirt in blue water.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Canibul

which part of that are you referring to as 'blue water'? What part of being in deep water threatens a rudder?

Seems to me what you need here is a tough coastal cruiser. They don't have dirt in blue water.

Don't be ridiculous. I'm referring to the fact that the boat is overbuild, rugged and designed to take the worst that Mother Nature has to throw her way. If the boat can take repeated hits and poundings off the bottom, then I'm reasonably confident the rudder or keel probably won't snap off in a gale... like what happens on the lightly built coastal cruisers from time to time.

[Terra Nova]

What complete idiots on that boat!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Don't be ridiculous. I'm referring to the fact that the boat is overbuild, rugged and designed to take the worst that Mother Nature has to throw her way. If the boat can take repeated hits and poundings off the bottom, then I'm reasonably confident the rudder or keel probably won't snap off in a gale... like what happens on the lightly built coastal cruisers from time to time.

did an atlantic crossing with an IP, she had just as many issues as other boats. ( different issues )

PS: rudders dont " snap" of in a gale.

All you see in that video are idiots, why didn't they motor away when they had time, the engine was clearly running.

Ken , have a look at the Dehler video of running a fin keel up on rocks , what you say to that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvxhQO4pw2E

there are other on youtube etc

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Don't be ridiculous. I'm referring to the fact that the boat is overbuild, rugged and designed to take the worst that Mother Nature has to throw her way. If the boat can take repeated hits and poundings off the bottom, then I'm reasonably confident the rudder or keel probably won't snap off in a gale... like what happens on the lightly built coastal cruisers from time to time.

Well, I think the amount of "protection", or support, that puny 'strap' lends to the strength of the rudders on some of the IPs I've seen out of the water, is pretty negligible...






It appears others have made various efforts to 'improve' upon the original design...





That rudder would be far better protected/supported in a grounding, if it were simply attached to the keel. Having what amounts to a 'Barn Door Spade' - attached to the keel by something capable of little more than keeping lobster pot warps from catching the rudder - at a depth equal to that of the keel, seems a highly vulnerable arrangement, to me... I'll take a robustly engineered balanced spade, the bottom of which is considerably shallower than the keel, to this sort of thing, every time...

There's far more to bluewater/extended voyaging capability than the ability to survive a hard grounding... After all, no telling how many boats of that type found themselves in such dire straits to begin with, due to their poor weatherly sailing ability, and not being able to claw off a lee shore, or sail themselves out of a jam in lighter airs... :-)

Watching that video, I assumed at the start that the boat had been left unattended on that mooring... Hard to fathom, how that skipper stayed put in those conditions, and allowed himself to get into that situation...

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

What complete idiots on that boat!

I don't see any idiots. Stuff happens. In their case the mooring line snapped when conditions in the mooring field intensified. It's easy to armchair sailor the escapade from behind the safety of your computer screen and Monday morning quarterback a response, but in their case, the rugged build quality of their boat saved them from ending up on the beach.... period.

Last season our anchor dragged in rather calm conditions, and we touched the beach stern to with our skeg... no damage. We weren't being idiots, sometimes stuff happens which is beyond your control and the boat needs to be built to take a hit.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

why didn't they motor away when they had time .. the engine was clearly running

that's what i thought. was this some kind of publicity stunt? why did they let it smash into the rocks then motor away? perhaps paralyzed by fear?

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Canibul

which part of that are you referring to as 'blue water'? What part of being in deep water threatens a rudder?

take a look at the movie "all is lost" .. you can hit things like submerged cargo containers in deep water that could rip a rudder off. but yes it is much easier to do this close to shore.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by gonesail

take a look at the movie "all is lost" .. you can hit things like submerged cargo containers in deep water that could rip a rudder off. but yes it is much easier to do this close to shore.

While we're on the subject of idiots... (Robert Redford)

In that lame movie, the shipping container came out of nowhere in dead calm seas and smashed into the boat at warp speed.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

While we're on the subject of idiots... (Robert Redford)

In that lame movie, the shipping container came out of nowhere in dead calm seas and smashed into the boat at warp speed.

It also hit the boat in the stern quarter, sideways-on, which meant that the container must have been moving at quite a speed - an ability I didn't know that shipping containers possessed.

[Cheechako]

Yep, your spade rudder wouldn't have survived that. Of course that guy was lucky his protected rudder did also. My friends had to replace their Pearson 38 spade rudder (twice!)once from anchoring too shallow in the Bahamas, their grounding was nothing like that.

[Mycroft]

The ONLY explanation I can see would be that they were unable to get the engine into gear for some reason. They were drifting in to the rocks beam to the waves and it would have taken just one kick from the engine to get the boat bow to the waves.

Either the transmission was not engaging or perhaps there was something stuck in the prop that didn't get worked out until after they hit the rock. Either way, it was a very close call indeed!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

It also hit the boat in the stern quarter, sideways-on, which meant that the container must have been moving at quite a speed - an ability I didn't know that shipping containers possessed.

Shipping containers have been known to hit speeds of over 70mph on the highway.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I don't see any idiots. Stuff happens. In their case the mooring line snapped when conditions in the mooring field intensified. It's easy to armchair sailor the escapade from behind the safety of your computer screen and Monday morning quarterback a response, but in their case, the rugged build quality of their boat saved them from ending up on the beach.... period.

Last season our anchor dragged in rather calm conditions, and we touched the beach stern to with our skeg... no damage. We weren't being idiots, sometimes stuff happens which is beyond your control and the boat needs to be built to take a hit.

yes but they had considerable time to turn out to safety , yet they persisted in doing nothing till the very end,