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Old 27-04-2015, 10:50   #16
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
take a look at the movie "all is lost" .. you can hit things like submerged cargo containers in deep water that could rip a rudder off. but yes it is much easier to do this close to shore.
err, it's a movie, they used 5 sailboats and a tank,
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Old 27-04-2015, 10:54   #17
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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This Island Packet is one tough boat. Can your boat survive this kind of punishment? Still think that having a protected rudder doesn't matter? Will a spade rudder survive this sort of punishment?

I think not.

For those folks who are still trying to figure out the differences between the "bluewater boats" and the not so bluewater, I think this video demonstrates the difference. Could your boat take hits like the one in the video and still survive?

Id like to deal with the kernel of this argument, I want a blue water boat to be very good at the things it will do 99.99% of the time, for me thats sailing in all forms of weather. for that I want the most efficient hydrodynamic rudder thats consistent with the design. for the most part that a spade rudder. When I fall off a big wave , trailing wraps , what do I want to control the boat and prevent broaching , yeap, that spade rudder again.

for the 0.01% of the time where I hit the beach, hopefully I can walk ashore and ring my insurers

boats are compromises, if I wanted to sail in an indestructible tank, Id buy a submarine
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Old 27-04-2015, 10:55   #18
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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yes but they had considerable time to turn out to safety , yet they persisted in doing nothing till the very end,
Agreed, but we don't know the entire story.

My focus in posting this video on the thread, is on the vessels ability to take multiple hits on the rocks and bottom, and still motor away to safety.
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Old 27-04-2015, 10:57   #19
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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Agreed, but we don't know the entire story.

My focus in posting this video on the thread, is on the vessels ability to take multiple hits on the rocks and bottom, and still motor away to safety.
if thats you citeria for blue water boats, then you need to sail locked into a 1 foot thick steel tube.

when however, you are rushing down the side of a big wave, trailing wraps, what you want is the most efficient rudder you can imagine, thats not installed on IPs though .
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:05   #20
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

I suspect what I am seeing is possibly another incident of an inadequate mooring procedure and inadequate preparation for the conditions. All I can see is one mooring pendant (could be wrong on this but the video quality is not that good) and and anchor left on the bow during seas big enough to dip the bow into the water.. After the boat breaks free the anchor hanging down indicating the anchor may be what chopped the pendant when the bow dove into a wave and the anchor snagged the pendant then chopped it in half. I've seen this so many times I was even able to photograph it actually happening....

The only reason the Island Packet below survived this storm was because the second pendant survived the duration..


Snap!!


Leaving an anchor on a roller while on a mooring in chop like that is simply a poor idea.....
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:05   #21
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

When I think of the term "Bluewater" or "Ocean going vessel," I think it means integrity and self sufficiency. Able to withstand the hard knocks which might come your way... not just the ability to steer efficiently, which I also think is important. I also believe the boat should be able to turn into a submarine from time to time and keep resurfacing when conditions turn bad unexpectedly... which may happen close to shore or hundreds of miles out to sea. Stuff happens.

'Just my interpretation of the terms.

Ken
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:06   #22
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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Leaving an anchor on a roller while on a mooring in chop like that is simply a poor idea.....
yes yet having it available to deploy quickly , is a very good idea.
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:07   #23
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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did an atlantic crossing with an IP, she had just as many issues as other boats. ( different issues )

PS: rudders dont " snap" of in a gale.
Yeah, lest anyone get too carried away in presuming that a single YouTube video 'proves' anything conclusive about the Bluewater Suitability of a particular Brand, here are a couple more recent vids featuring Island Packets, a bit further away from the beach...

Shot from the perspective of a CG Jayhawk rescue helo, instead :-)



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Old 27-04-2015, 11:09   #24
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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I also believe the boat should be able to turn into a submarine from time to time and keep resurfacing when conditions turn bad unexpectedly... which may happen close to shore or hundreds of miles out to sea.
very hard to determine what boats might handle going under and coming back better . Most modern criers have more then enough structural integrity to handle typical gales, right up to survival gales, where the crew know what they are doing.

again , we simply have no data to make any sort of reasonable statistical judgement , hence we are left with personal opinion and bias.
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:17   #25
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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yes yet having it available to deploy quickly , is a very good idea.
It can still be "at the ready" just not in a way that interferes with the pendants....
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:20   #26
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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It can still be "at the ready" just not in a way that interferes with the pendant....
indeed
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:38   #27
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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indeed
Dave,

I'm heading over to Sardinia in two weeks for a five month stay. Will you be any place nearby this summer for a visit?

Ken
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:41   #28
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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Dave,

I'm heading over to Sardinia in two weeks for a five month stay. Will you be any place nearby this summer for a visit?

Ken
hey Ken,

I maybe near Nice, just hatching plans at the moment, work is interfering with my summer though , I really need to retire !!!

there is a chance I may be doing a delivery from Greece to portugal, via france. that would bring me to Sardina ( in they) ,

where are you Olbia ?
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:56   #29
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

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hey Ken,

I maybe near Nice, just hatching plans at the moment, work is interfering with my summer though , I really need to retire !!!

there is a chance I may be doing a delivery from Greece to portugal, via france. that would bring me to Sardina ( in they) ,

where are you Olbia ?
Our home base for flights in and out for guests and my wife will be Olbia. But we'll be sailing all around the island up into Corsica, Southern France and Elba. Can easily meet up with you on your way from Greece to Portugal for dinner and some beers. That'll be fun, maybe even get some of the other CF regulars in the area to meet up at the same time.

Just keep me updated on your plans.

Ken
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Old 27-04-2015, 12:00   #30
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Re: Is Your Boat This Bluewater Tough?

Kenomac,

Thanks for posting the vid!

For me... I'll keep my old school full keeler.

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