Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-04-2014, 20:25   #121
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
The Erickson-style, yes. But I had in mind a belt-driven pump with suction hose inlet.

Yes , still don't like long pipes , blockages , suction loss , etc. prefer to now bring pump to area. , but hey , engine pump better then no pump.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 20:35   #122
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,312
Images: 75
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Lol I've been feeling crook the last couple of days and playing on forums when I should be working!

Sorry minaret.
to err is human.....sometimes i have been pulled up for ripping the heads off and doing unspeakable things down necks

cant see any harm done
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 20:42   #123
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,651
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

On Terra Nova, with an internally ballasted keel, the engine sits just forward of the deepest part of the bilge, which is several feet deeper than the engine. So a pickup would be extremely close to the engine/pump.

I like a diesel powered pump for the huge fuel reserves and safety. But a separate, gasoline fed crash pump could save your boat if the engine is submerged.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 20:50   #124
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Boat: Menger 19' Catboat
Posts: 248
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
For engines with lots of clearance directly above or to one side:

Have a large drum (pressure cooker pot?) that fits to the crankshaft like a standard hand crank does (releases when engine starts).

Lock crankshaft with a piece or rope wrapped around the drum opposite of the desired rotation.

Wrap bungee cord around drum 2 or 3 turns in the desired rotation direction. Affix other end of bungee several feet above or to the side. Add however many cords needed to start engine (discovered by trial and error).

When ready to start engine, cut the rope (stay the hell out of the way of that drum when it comes flying off the engine).

Steve
A similar idea:

I seem to recall reading that some traditional sailing craft (perhaps Thames barges?) in the early days of diesel auxiliaries used a weight hoisted on a halyard with a manual winch to provide the motive power for starting. The fall of the halyard was wrapped around the engine flywheel and the weight allowed to drop to the deck.

Perhaps for emergency start on a modern engine (especially one with compression release), a drum could be bolted to the crankshaft pulley and a system of snatch blocks and appropriate attachment points used to provide a fair lead from the companionway to the drum.

Use your heaviest anchor for the falling weight and stack up berth cushions on the cabin top to catch it!

The little 1GM10 Yanmar on my catboat came with a hand crank. That's all I need. You big guys have it tougher.
__________________
Ukeluthier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 21:47   #125
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Lol I've been feeling crook the last couple of days and playing on forums when I should be working!

Sorry minaret.



It's all good...
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 21:49   #126
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukeluthier View Post
A similar idea:

I seem to recall reading that some traditional sailing craft (perhaps Thames barges?) in the early days of diesel auxiliaries used a weight hoisted on a halyard with a manual winch to provide the motive power for starting. The fall of the halyard was wrapped around the engine flywheel and the weight allowed to drop to the deck.

Perhaps for emergency start on a modern engine (especially one with compression release), a drum could be bolted to the crankshaft pulley and a system of snatch blocks and appropriate attachment points used to provide a fair lead from the companionway to the drum.

Use your heaviest anchor for the falling weight and stack up berth cushions on the cabin top to catch it!

The little 1GM10 Yanmar on my catboat came with a hand crank. That's all I need. You big guys have it tougher.


Or the wrap the main sheet around a drum on the flywheel method.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 21:56   #127
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
On Terra Nova, with an internally ballasted keel, the engine sits just forward of the deepest part of the bilge, which is several feet deeper than the engine. So a pickup would be extremely close to the engine/pump.

I like a diesel powered pump for the huge fuel reserves and safety. But a separate, gasoline fed crash pump could save your boat if the engine is submerged.


I like this. I use gas crash pumps all the time in the boatyard, sometimes it takes as many as four of them at once to keep a wooden boat which has dried out enough to open the seams a bit from sinking in the slip. They can be a bitch to start, especially if you have been running gas with ethanol in them, as it eats the carb float needle same as it does in outboards. If I was planning on relying on one in an emergency, I'd either buy a new one and never use it unless needed as a crash pump, or use and maintain it often to be sure it's working. I think most people would let one sit and it wouldn't start when they needed it. That's why I like the sound of this.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 21:56   #128
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I seem to remember the big rig in the movie "The Road Warrior" having a shotgun cartridge start. Is this a done thing with truck diesels? Or am I imagining that? Or was it just in the movie?
You weren't imagining it, it was in Road warrior (but in a fanciful way)

There is a dinkum implementation, as described below.

It brings a new sense of seriousness to the expression "keep your powder dry, now"

Coffman engine starter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 21:59   #129
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
On Terra Nova ...a pickup would be extremely close to the engine/pump.

I like a diesel powered pump for the huge fuel reserves and safety. But a separate, gasoline fed crash pump could save your boat if the engine is submerged.
Ah, yes, indeed, now, but wouldn't it be a fine thing if you could start and run your main engine even if it WAS submerged ? ? ? Eh ??
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 22:06   #130
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Ah, yes, indeed, now, but wouldn't it be a fine thing if you could start and run your main engine even if it WAS submerged ? ? ? Eh ??



Especially if you had a monster pump with a belt drive you could quickly set up to it. Bet you could repurpose an agricultural pump real easy for this. They have all sorts of pumps for irrigating fields and the like which are set up to run directly off an engine like that.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 22:18   #131
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

You need a crash pump.not because it will work or start or prime. It won't start it won't prime but who cares.I think when the crash pump failed to prime or start I would be so adrenal charged I could bail thousands of gallons for days. I would probably smash the dam thing with my axe. Yes axe. I have one just in case the crash pump fails and I need to bash the hell out of it.
Then with the desire to kill those still supporting ethanol I would pump and bail with simple pumps and buckets so I could post on cf how stupid it is to have all this crap to make us safe.
There you have it great historical fodder if I go off and sink.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
sabray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 22:54   #132
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

That's why we need an axe:

a hatchet would be much more practical,

but an axe is *so* much more satisfying ...
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 23:41   #133
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,433
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

For those talking about gasoline crash pumps, just remember how well they worked for the Bounty 2. Besides I dont want to store something with gas below decks. If you store them on deck, they become a ball of rust. They must be maintained constantly or they are junk. Most gas generators are not designed for a salt environment. Probably not a practical idea. _____Grant.
__________________
gjordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2014, 04:09   #134
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 1,376
Images: 7
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

It seems I'm an oddball in Australia and do not conform to the she'll be right mentality. Probably because of my Canadian background.Australians do have a "she'll be right mate" attitude and appear very casual about a lot of stuff however they seem to work their way through things pretty to good outcomes and generally when there is some sort of disaster it becomes obvious that they and the communities they live in are fairly well organized. In general they prefer order but are not very paranoid people.

I was concerned about being able to start my 50hp diesel engine when I replaced the o;d one as the new did not have valve lifters or a hand crank so I fitted two starter motors and have two battery systems.
__________________
RaymondR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2014, 05:25   #135
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 227
Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Evilbay has 2" and 3" electric/pull start diesel pumps, probably Chinese, at a low price. If I do buy one I expect to rework the pump cover with over-centre or swivelling-screw clamps for easy removal - full trash pumps being about double the price.

I only remember seeing gasoline-fuelled crash pumps mentioned in this thread and I'm curious to know who would also avoid the diesel ones - and why?

Weighing the choice between those and a 3" pump belt-driven by my (bulletproof?) Bukh 36. Separate system/fuel supply/transportability is attractive, Chinese manufacture not so much.

Just for fun... an attachment for an outboard (mentioned earlier I think) I see as being very possible and as having potentially massive capability. Engine remains on transom, is tilted up, housing with suction pipe is fitted, engine is tilted back down. No need to carry the engine indoors and it's cooled with clean water.
Never to be used to dig for anything on the bottom of course, even if the housing is reversible. Pretty good fire hose though?

Naysayers ready... steady... GO!!
__________________

__________________
bornyesterday is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rescue, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Long Does Potable Water Keep cburger Provisioning: Food & Drink 28 10-09-2012 06:35
Are There Any Ship Accidents That Rescue Teams Were Not Effective To Rescue People ? lora20035 Challenges 3 31-03-2012 11:20
If You Keep Your Boat on a Mooring these Tips Might Keep it Off the Rocks SailFastTri Anchoring & Mooring 16 06-07-2010 12:32
Cats Better for Long Distance Sailing? Cavecreature Multihull Sailboats 68 29-05-2009 02:05
buying and owning boats long distance capt lar Monohull Sailboats 10 29-03-2005 08:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.