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Old 08-04-2014, 14:33   #31
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

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Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe View Post
Interesting idea. I wonder if you could get a cordless drill that would have enough oomph to turn the flywheel or crankshaft by just sticking the right-sized socket in it? I guess it depends largely on the size of the engine. Anyone tried this?

Sorry, i'm really off-topic now!
I have a cordless Ryobi 1/2" impact that would probably do it.
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Old 08-04-2014, 14:45   #32
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

I imagine you need a pretty good forearm to hold the drill.

Hand crank engines generally had a decompression lever, no?
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Old 08-04-2014, 15:06   #33
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

problem solved

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Old 08-04-2014, 15:30   #34
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

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That's what I thought. Thanks.
Evidently I misunderstood your question. Sorry about that.
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:00   #35
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emergency engine start

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...I wonder if you could get a cordless drill that would have enough oomph to turn the flywheel or crankshaft by just sticking the right-sized socket in it?...
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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
I have a cordless Ryobi 1/2" impact that would probably do it.
Without an intermediate gear reduction the cordless drill is roughly able to drive a #12 x 3" screw (more or less). Using the drill's flywheel effect one might break that screw. The cordless impact should be able to remove the front crankshaft nut.

What you would need is another gear reduction, the flywheel, for example. It would likely be a simple matter to build a starter replacement which only provided a means of connecting/disconnecting a starter pinion, and whose shaft could be chucked in your Winch Buddy, or whatever, in case your starter or batteries died.

Likewise it could be done by driving the crank pulley, by belt.

And there was the round the world racer who ingeniously started his diesel using the pressure of an extended mainsheet and a bunch of blocks.
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:05   #36
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

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problem solved

I don't think this is a solution at all. These things have proven to me to be quite unreliable. I've never owned one but I've witnessed many attempts to use them in many different means of transportation. It nearly always failed to start otherwise mechanically sound engines.

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Old 08-04-2014, 16:09   #37
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Re: emergency engine start

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Without an intermediate gear reduction the cordless drill is roughly able to drive a #12 x 3" screw (more or less). Using the drill's flywheel effect one might break that screw. The cordless impact should be able to remove the front crankshaft nut.



What you would need is another gear reduction, the flywheel, for example. It would likely be a simple matter to build a starter replacement which only provided a means of connecting/disconnecting a starter pinion, and whose shaft could be chucked in your Winch Buddy, or whatever, in case your starter or batteries died.

.


Sure I could knock one together using plywood and superglue

Seriously have any of you tried to turn over a 4 cylinder modern high compression Diesel engine .......

Dave
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:15   #38
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Air motors which are affordable at list price are extraordinarily inefficient in terms of the quantity of air they waste.

If anyone wants to try the suggestion to make an emergency starter using components, please consider spending not much more for a pre-owned (or even "new old stock", reputable brand-name motor. There is a brief window of opportunity; industrial activity is being outsourced eastwards, so there's a temporary glut.

If you go for Harbor Freight or similar, by the time you've compounded the losses by gearing it down (especially if, once again, you resort to HF-style engineering) you're likely to have shot your bolt for nothing.

Driving the flywheel is tricky, unless you plan to engineer a starter pinion mounting and engagement mechanism, which is not for the fainthearted.

I would suggest it would be more promising to make up a large diameter V belt pulley, to bolt onto the front of the crankshaft pulley.

There needs to be some sort of one-way drive to prevent the diesel trying to drive the air motor at high speed when it starts. Possibly use linkbelt to enable adjusting the belt tension without the need for a swinging mount (and to enable removing the belt when the emergency starter is required)

Pay no heed to the prevailing culture on this forum. There appears to be a widespread belief that a problem which cannot be solved by them cannot be solved by us.

A slightly more sophisticated version is that if it cannot be solved by them it should not be solved by anyone -- other than large commercial concerns or governments. The sailing community can then piggyback on their solution by opening their wallets - mission accomplished.

Like Tinkerbelle, these propositions are true for those believe in them: anything they think they cannot solve, they will not solve.

What I find disappointing about this is that due to the democracy of markets, eventually the resourceful minority will run out of raw material.

Given the dwindling demand for robust simple technology, like self-sufficient engines and pumps, the supply is drying up before our eyes, denying future sailors options taken for granted by our forebears.

The opportunity to travel the world in relative safety without being lashed to the apron strings of corporations and states and airfreight companies is rapidly being extinguished.
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:15   #39
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

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I'm now seriously considering adding a tee into the circuit to allow use of the engine's intake as an additional emergency pump. .
this is a really good idea.

bailing for five days would suck.
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:19   #40
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Re: emergency engine start

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Sure I could knock one together using plywood and superglue

Seriously have any of you tried to turn over a 4 cylinder modern high compression Diesel engine .......

Dave
i just put all the sails up,and when i get to 26 knots,just put the 6cylinder in gear and bump start it.....................................
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:22   #41
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

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Originally Posted by Fiveslide View Post
I don't think this is a solution at all. These things have proven to me to be quite unreliable. I've never owned one but I've witnessed many attempts to use them in many different means of transportation. It nearly always failed to start otherwise mechanically sound engines.

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My experience has been entirely different, although I was skeptical until seeing them in used during a 4wd trip out in the desert which convinced me they have value. You do need a unit with the correct rating for the engine and keep it trickle charging at all times. I have used mine to start the boat's engine when we first brought the boat with it's dead as a dodo batteries, but I don't bother with it onboard with the good batteries. For long term cruising I'd roll my own inbuilt unit if I really thought there was a chance of total house bank failure.
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:24   #42
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

andrew. With the greatest respect. I cut my early days designing air driven engine assembly tools. Trying to start an engine with a synthetic belt and air motor requires much more engineering then you suggest. For a start air motors need considerable volumes of air at high pressures. If you have the technology to maintain air in that way. Then you have the technology to keep a spare battery charged.

Personally I'd leave Heath Robinson to his cartoons and carry a spare starter and battery if that was needed

Wistfully wishing for the return to the steam age is just that.

60 years ago, people who sailed around the world got knighted for their efforts. Today every Tom Dick and Harry does it. That's a testimony to modern technology and its reliability.

The old days weren't that good

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Old 08-04-2014, 16:28   #43
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

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this is a really good idea.

bailing for five days would suck.

Makes it nice and easy to winterize too. If you needed to use it to pump then that's an option. Down side is you might get gunk in your impeller. Clean bilges are your friends. Guess a screen on the intake would be pretty easy. They don't pump large volume but the one time I used my intake tee to get water out it was effective.


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Old 08-04-2014, 16:35   #44
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

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I have a cordless Ryobi 1/2" impact that would probably do it.
With a decompressor maybe. Not enough oomph otherwise. Starter motors might look smallish but they are designed specifically to lay on torque whilst drawing bucket loads of current at low duty cycles.

A pneumatic 600 ft/lb + rattle gun on the other hand, might just do it but then the air supply needs to come from somewhere.
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:51   #45
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Re: Inability to keep the water out > Long distance rescue

Regarding the discussion about starting an engine with a cordless drill, it seems that no-one has actually tried it. Some say probably, some say probably not. Nobody has mentioned the size of the engine as being important. Those of you who say no, surely if the engine is small enough it has to work!

On another note, how easy would it be to decompress most engines manually and then crank them? Could you perhaps remove one of the injectors, thereby reducing the torque needed to turn the engine, and simply run it on one less cylinder? At least you'd have it running then! Better yet, crack off all of the injoectors, get it spinning with the drill and then tighten them up one by one? I'm not in a position to try it at the moment (i don't have a drill!) but would be intrigued if anyone else wants to give it a go!
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