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Old 28-05-2013, 09:33   #31
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
The problem I have with it, in the usual role for bending two lines together, is that it can be tied several wrong ways (although only two, I imagine, in Paul's example) and these wrong ways are much less secure.
I'm having trouble seeing a "wrong way" to tie the Carrick on the loop (as I described). At the moment though, I can only imagine one wrong way to tie it normally, so I could be missing something. Can you point me so some examples of wrongness?
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Old 28-05-2013, 09:55   #32
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

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I'm having trouble seeing a "wrong way" to tie the Carrick on the loop (as I described). At the moment though, I can only imagine one wrong way to tie it normally, so I could be missing something. Can you point me so some examples of wrongness?
I can only see one wrong way of tying it normally that would still resemble a Carrick. The photo shows this.

When tying it onto a loop I really can't see a wrong way either (the wrong nature comes from the position of the two loose ends relative to each other and if you are thing it onto a loop you have no loose end).

This is the wrong way "normally":
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Old 28-05-2013, 10:07   #33
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

This is the same photo cropped, so now one of the lines is a loop.

There is no longer anything wrong about the knot:
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Old 28-05-2013, 10:13   #34
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

Unless this is what Andrew means by a 'wrong' way, but then it doesn't resemble a Carrick any longer as one line passes over the other twice, then under twice on the left instead of over and under each time:

Edited to add: this knot releases with a slight pull though, so I can't imagine tying this LOL! There is another version of this that would go under twice and over twice instead and would release equally easily.
The sheet bend could also be called a wrongly tied Carrick too (see my photo a few posts up).
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Old 28-05-2013, 10:51   #35
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

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When I worked on ski patrol we had to tie small poly ropes together all the time. We used what we called a Barrel Knot, which is also known as a Double Fisherman's knot. This is also used on monofilimant. Very solid strong knot that stays tied when flopped around. Great knot excepting for the fact that you need a knife blade to "untie" it.
Double Fisherman's is a great knot to weld two non slippery lines .
I use this for loops where the loop will never need to be undone. It is also a lovely compact looking knot. If the line is slippery or extra security is needed a Triple Fisherman's is the way to go.
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:05   #36
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

Well, I just gave Paul's idea a try, and unfortunately it did not hold at all - the climbing line just slips right thru the dyneema.

I think I tied it 'right'

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But when I "load tested" it, it held almost no load before slipping. I know the double sheet bend does not slip like this as I have used it on a spectra sling to our old chain hook for years.

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I could make a figure 8 loop and then cow hitch that into the dyneema loop - I am pretty sure that would not slip and would be strong, but it would be bulky. The double fisherman is an interesting idea - it's how I typically join two dyneema ends together if I don't want to do splices . . . I was thinking it was better to have at least the dyneema spliced but perhaps that does not matter as the climbing knot rope is clearly the weak point.

Really I need to find some instructions for splicing this stuff.
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:06   #37
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

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... If the line is slippery or extra security is needed a Triple Fisherman's is the way to go.
Meaning you make three turns around the standing parts on each side instead of just two? I think I have done this, just didn't know to call it a Triple Fisherman's.
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:17   #38
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

What do you all think of the below . . . .

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It's half of a double fisherman, tied to the dyneema loop. It does not slip. It will be much harder to untie than the sheet bend, if I ever have/want to. DO you think stronger or weaker than the sheet bend?
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:23   #39
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

And just for fun, here is a triple tied the same way. It's a nice looking knot. Comments on better or worse than the sheet bend?

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Old 28-05-2013, 11:24   #40
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

that looks good. Did you whip the eye splice on the dyneema? I think you are supposed to stitch it and not whip it. Ive done both ways but have settled for stitching it.
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:30   #41
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

^^ I did both stitched and whipped. My impression from tests at North and Southern Spars is that the stitching does the work and the whipping looks good.
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:45   #42
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

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Well, I just gave Paul's idea a try, and unfortunately it did not hold at all - the climbing line just slips right thru the dyneema.

I think I tied it 'right'
Yes, it is tied correctly. Before any load is put on it though, you need to tighten it up so that the knot forms a ball. Did you do that?

This is how it should look before any load is applied:
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:55   #43
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

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Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
Meaning you make three turns around the standing parts on each side instead of just two? I think I have done this, just didn't know to call it a Triple Fisherman's.
Yes, pass it over another time before bringing the loose end through all three loops.

This is a photo of one half of it before it is tightened:
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Old 28-05-2013, 12:01   #44
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

And this is one half of the Triple Fisherman's tightened:
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Old 28-05-2013, 12:09   #45
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Re: In defence of the sheet bend

And this is the completed Triple Fisherman's.

It is an extremely useful knot to learn as it works well joining two slippery lines of roughly the same diameter. Works so well that the knot just about welds together under high load:

(Sorry with all the delays responding. We have just reanchored. Wanted to wait until dusk so no boats would anchor near us )
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