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Old 13-10-2011, 23:10   #61
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Just read other replies. On my boat, or others, I don't like hoisting job first as it flogs the living daylights out of itself, the mast, and sometimes humans.
My halyard is at the mast and I hate being whipped by the jib.
Cleat your jib sheet for a beam reach, let the boat fall off until the wind is on the beam, and haul up the jib. It will fill immediately and not flog. Harden up the sheet as you head upwind. When you are close hauled lock the helm and you can raise the main with no fanfare.

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Old 13-10-2011, 23:12   #62
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

pauliebear--you have a garden ketch as do i-- with only mizzen and jib, is a doable event. might be scary as hail, but is doable from one direction or the other, depending on tide. is important to watch that tide stuff, as can make boat non responsive under shortened sail. my landing was necessary under sail as the starter committed suicide off cedros island. current was taking us to rocks, but that was about 5 miles off yet and a gust of wind brought us into the harbor and to the wharf. was timely, fortunate and JUST enough.....ye just do what ye gotta do to save home and adventures.
practice is an excellent idea...more should do that--isnt hard to sail onto a dock, as long as is a long dock--is the inside the marina bs that is more difficult. i have been lucky to have only had to sail to long docks.
the two variables that are out of human control are wind and current. sailing against current while under headsail isnt gonna work if current is greater than wind speed.
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Old 14-10-2011, 00:07   #63
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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the two variables that are out of human control are wind and current. sailing against current while under headsail isnt gonna work if current is greater than wind speed.
It will have to be a multiple of the current I think unless your boat can sail at wind speed. You may need some room to fall off while building headway as well!

Slocum has a bit in Sailing Alone Around the World where he's bouncing off people sailing out of port. I doubt that people anchored as close to each other then as we do now!
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Old 14-10-2011, 02:36   #64
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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That's certainly how I was taught to do it.
Me too.

In the early 70 I used to sail single-handed an engineless two masted 43 ft mono. Often when becalmed it was necessary to lower all the sails to minimise wear of the sails due to flogging. When the wind resumed the boat always had enough motion to be brought head to the wind and the main raised first. If it was not possible to raise all the sail in one shot, the boat will fall or tack in any case with the main sheet in the boat will go back to the wind and the main raised further, a jib will not allow that type of manoeuvring so no jib. In heavy weather normally the main would have been reefed and little of the main is require to be raised. Under motion I will jog the boat to the wind. With a crew, the crew will jog the boat to the wind. With an autopilot I will jog the boat to the wind, to do this I have an autopilot remote control at the mast, so easy.
In the mid 60 the game was to bring boats backward into the port of Hyeres using a spinnaker sheeted to the stern, very smooth, today many marinas do not allow sailing into the marina.
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Old 14-10-2011, 02:53   #65
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

with the advent of the steam engine,and harbours that have been built with no thought to the prevailing wind .

basic sailing skills have been lost as the reliance on a fair wind is no longer nessacary to enter a port.

not so long ago in this part of the world all our commerce and fishing was conducted only under sail.

the working harbours that existed were ones that you could sail in and out of in large ships,going along side involved waiting for the right conditions and a crew of rowers,towing or kedging to the dock.

smaller craft tacked up to the dock and rafted up then drifted off before getting under way again.

you never sailed into a bay that you couldn't sail out of,a lee shore was somthing every sailor feared.

when some one has to ask how to sail a boat with out an engine ,one has to ask your self would this person be at sea without a gps!!!!!!

oh and for those who put the cart before the horse do you drop/roll your genoa before putting a reef in underway?
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Old 14-10-2011, 09:54   #66
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

Interesting discussion, like with the preventer thread, shows just how many ways there are to do things.

Many posters have suggested letting the boom way out. I do not do this for three reasons. First, in the ocean, with an ocean swell, if you do then the boom will swing wildly back and forth, being very dangerous and probably break something. It would be possible to prevent the boom way off center to stop this, but then when the boat starts turning up into the wind you have a backed prevented mainsail. And second, I want the mainsail to provide turning moment to head the boat up into the wind and that's best done with the main centered. And third, having the boom centered keeps the main off the rigging as much as is possible (although it will still rub on the stays before the leach tightens on the reef clew line)

Our procedure is boom centered, pull in the deepest reef lines, and then hoist. We can get the mainsail up to the deepest reef even with the wind right on the beam. Once that reef is in, everything is under control and the boat is sailing well we can pull the reefs out.

As to hoisting the main or jib first, I was taught you generally start with the aft sails first, as they help keep the boat pointed into the wind making the hoist easier and provide greater boat control in harbour than starting with the front sail.

But that's really more important for in harbour hoisting. On the open water, on most boats with an autopilot, setting some jib first could help. You get the boat moving and set the autopilot on a close reach and then hoist the mainsail. If you don't have an autopilot or helmsman, then it depends on the boat and you need to experiment. On some if you set the jib and tie the tiller amidships the boat will beam reach and not steer up. If you try to tie the tiller to turn up into the wind on some boats, it will steer and S course including going up and jib flogging.


We used to sail backwards out of anchorages using just our mizzen (on our old ketch). Most boats tack much better under just mainsail than under just jib (although some can't tack with either alone and need both). If the anchorage is upwind, or I want to go in and look around, I would always approach with just mainsail (probably reefed even in lightish winds). That way I can sail all over, tacking, looking around and pick my spot and then shoot up into the wind where I want to drop the hook.

But the mainsail has a problem, in that you can't spill the wind on a downwind or even broad reach course. So, if you have a narrow harbour with a downwind entrance and want to end up on what Zee calls a long wharf then an approach under jib makes some sense as you can completely spill the wind (entirely dump it or roll it) when you have your approach to the dock lined up. But you only get one shot at that sort of approach, and are somewhat screwed if you mess up and have to make your way short tacking back upwind.
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Old 14-10-2011, 10:55   #67
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post

Our procedure is boom centered, pull in the deepest reef lines, and then hoist. We can get the mainsail up to the deepest reef even with the wind right on the beam. Once that reef is in, everything is under control and the boat is sailing well we can pull the reefs out.
Thanks Estarzinger... that sounds like it might work well on my boat also. Fully reefed I don't think my main would get high enough to tangle with the stays. Will definitely try that.
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Old 16-10-2011, 10:59   #68
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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when some one has to ask how to sail a boat with out an engine ,one has to ask your self would this person be at sea without a gps!!!!!!

Well..........Ahem.............some of us are not the experts we thought we were............

My cat is different than any other boat I have sailed.

It will not sail with the main alone unless it is already headed down wind. If sitting still it floats with beam to wind. With only the main up it will not get under way. At least I can't do it. I have tried in 10 knots and 25 knots. I have tried making it back up some and putting the helm down while easing the main so it will begin to point downwind and I can get going. Doesn't work. Try to ease the main in slowly to get moving a little upwind - doesn't go. Only till there is a little jib out will it do anything I want.

But to the original question.

I will try a little jib action and see how that works and what estarzinger said about raising only to the lowest reef point. That sounds really good.

It is all about learning the specific boat.

My first "real" boat (a Snark doesn't really count right?) was a Westerly Nimrod, dingy rigged and sailed very very well with just the main. I seldom used the motor and amazed all those that sailed with me and even myself on occasion.

Other boats I have sailed - the 50 foot Gulfstar, the 40 ft Gulfstar and the 32' Cheoy Lee were all a Little (a lot) different. Each had their ways.
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Old 16-10-2011, 11:12   #69
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

it's not about being an expert it's all about getting out there and finding out what works for you and your prticular type of boat............then you too may be able to comment with expertise rather than theorise........
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Old 16-10-2011, 11:31   #70
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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it's not about being an expert it's all about getting out there and finding out what works for you and your prticular type of boat............then you too may be able to comment with expertise rather than theorise........
When I figure out my boat I will comment with expertise.
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Old 16-10-2011, 11:35   #71
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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When I figure out my boat I will comment with expertise.
i apologise if i implied you. no slight was intended towards you,
meerly that people should get out there and practise.
regards atoll.
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Old 16-10-2011, 11:52   #72
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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i apologise if i implied you. no slight was intended towards you,
meerly that people should get out there and practise.
regards atoll.

Sure wish I had time to practice more...............
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Old 16-10-2011, 12:12   #73
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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It will not sail with the main alone unless it is already headed down wind. If sitting still it floats with beam to wind. With only the main up it will not get under way. At least I can't do it. I have tried in 10 knots and 25 knots. I have tried making it back up some and putting the helm down while easing the main so it will begin to point downwind and I can get going. Doesn't work. Try to ease the main in slowly to get moving a little upwind - doesn't go. Only till there is a little jib out will it do anything I want.
I know the sail plan changed from the Gemini 3000 to the 3200, but I think it has been the same since. To get my 3200 going with just the main I slack the mainsheet and allow the boom to swing all the way out. Then turn the rudders hard downwind and begin gently hauling in the mainsheet. As the boat picks up enough speed for the rudders to become effective I straighten them. I continue sheeting in the main on a beam reach until I have good sail trim and good boat speed. Then I try to gradually head up, sheeting the main just enough to keep it from luffing. If I pinch too high the boat will go into irons and lose steerage way. If that happens I cast off the mainsheet and reverse the rudders. The wind will force the boat backwards and I'll be lying with the wind on the beam. Then I start the whole process over. I learned to do that sailing a Hobie 14.

My guess is that you're sheeting the main too much when you try to get moving, which causes the boat to weathercock into the wind without moving forward.

It's a pain in the neck and it's much easier to roll out the jib when I want to start sailing. I can sail close to the wind with just the jib and get the main set at leisure. The boat sails much faster and points higher with both sails up, but it is much easier to get started with the jib alone than the main alone.

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Old 16-10-2011, 17:11   #74
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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I know the sail plan changed from the Gemini 3000 to the 3200, but I think it has been the same since. To get my 3200 going with just the main I slack the mainsheet and allow the boom to swing all the way out. Then turn the rudders hard downwind and begin gently hauling in the mainsheet. As the boat picks up enough speed for the rudders to become effective I straighten them. I continue sheeting in the main on a beam reach until I have good sail trim and good boat speed. Then I try to gradually head up, sheeting the main just enough to keep it from luffing. If I pinch too high the boat will go into irons and lose steerage way. If that happens I cast off the mainsheet and reverse the rudders. The wind will force the boat backwards and I'll be lying with the wind on the beam. Then I start the whole process over. I learned to do that sailing a Hobie 14.

My guess is that you're sheeting the main too much when you try to get moving, which causes the boat to weathercock into the wind without moving forward.

It's a pain in the neck and it's much easier to roll out the jib when I want to start sailing. I can sail close to the wind with just the jib and get the main set at leisure. The boat sails much faster and points higher with both sails up, but it is much easier to get started with the jib alone than the main alone.

Fabbian
Exactly.

Thanks Fabbian.

I suppose I was too impatient to make it work. I will try again. I may just start with the jib now and skip the autopilot-to-windward with engine thing.

I do like to know what I can do if I have a problem come up.
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