Originally Posted by a64pilot
Well first wind
, I gotta admit, you really do understand the Biker thing....
Anyway usually down South here the group that us performance motorcyclist had the most trouble with were the Outlaws, and yes I can tell you a lot of them were to put it mildly deviants... but with the Outlaws in the late 70's and early 80's it was more than one percent, there were initiations for the Women that were not normal and other things.
But what I cannot fathom is why in the world would a successful CPA or Dentist want to try to act as if he were like that?
I don't know what it is in now, I am astonished that Harley's are still popular.
I guess sailing is the same, but I'm so new I don't know? Actually I don't think sailing is "in" is it? I feel sure I don't look the part as just the other day I had someone walk up and ask me if I knew who owned my boat
I was working on something and did not I'm sure look like a "yacht" owner.
nice post. good background and a great explanation as to where you are coming from. i like that. discussion not angry diatribe!
i see a few points to answer, here. i rearranged the last two for content continuity. the first three aren't directly on subject, as i am sure we'll get told, but i think they have bearing on this side issue. and i think this side issue (division amongst the ranks) is a serious one in the sailing community. even when it doesn't spin into side debates, you see it in digs and insults through many threads. maybe understanding and reason can help that. so, let's try.
point 1. i see that point. here it's the pgans. you would see them at events
and they would let you alone as long as you were respectful and let them alone but, they were always a lurking menace. during my days working at a bike shop i got to interact with some. never understood why they all scowled all the time. they looked so unhappy. riding always puts a smile on my face....which explains the gnats between my teeth
(all except one. he was really cool. smiled. joked. didn't know e was one of them until years later. always thought he was a member
of the tradesmen (an AMA sanctioned club)because he was always hanging with them. anyhow..
the outlaws, pagans, hells angels, etc are all 1%ers. 1%er was a term that the angels took up, and it spread, from something the american motorcycle association had said. that statement being: violent gang members make up only 1% of the motorcycle community, just like criminals make up a small percent of the general community. the vast majority of motorcycle riders are decent hard working, law abiding people.
it was a very true statement. i response, the angels, and then all the other clubbers (1%er, clubber both mean the same thing. they are gang members. they just don't call themselves that because gangs are illegal), took to wearing a patch of a 1%.
all clubbers are bad guys. they are all criminals. 100%. but, not all bikers are clubbers. that's where the 1% thing comes in. however, unless you look for the scowls or the colors on their vests, it's hard to tell a clubber from any other biker. what's worse is that loads of people wear various types of club sort of insignia on their vests. that's further confused by the fact that there are AMA (american motorcycle association) sanctioned clubs. they are not criminals or 1%ers. they just like the club idea without the attendant BS.
when i was a kid, i didn't fully understand what clubs really were. i always thought it would be great to have your own club; a group of guys that rode
together, hung out together, had each others backs. then, i got older and saw the truth. the AMA sanctioned clubbers did the same but, they formed their clubs and don't do the bad crap. why didn't i? because the AMA clubs still have to deal with the clubber political bs. they have to make truces and get permission to ride in 1% clubbers' turfs. screw that bs! i ride to be free. all of America is my turf. why would i limit myself? oddly enough, the pagans had wanted to prospect me, as had the strong arms. i respectfully declined both.
anyhow, your take on bikers being dirty and mental is caused from the same view as the general public. you see a bunch of guys that all look the same way and you assume they are the same. and, without understanding what the deal really is you make a judgment.
if you look at all the anti-pirate flag/jimmy buffet posts, you will see a similar basis.
you can't accurately judge a book by it's cover. there are bad people in every group. we all curse stinkpotters. i do to. and it's because we have all had bad experiences with some of them. hell, i have almost been run down by three of them in the last two years! but, there are a lot of decent folks on powerboats, too. a lot more than the bad, really. it's just that the bad stick out. i, personally, have seen or been the recipient of powerboater goodwill towards other people on the water
and have met a lot of good guys going out fishing
under power. but, we still curse powerboaters as if they all are bad....and they do the same with us! and for the same reasons.
a person has to resist the urge to make kneejerk judgments based on appearance. that leads to the same type of stupidity as racism (which is basically the same thing). all people are different. you have to give a person a bit of rope
. they will either tie it into a bowline to hitch to your dock
or a noose to hang themselves with.
point 2. why yuppies want to project
that image. not as relevant to sailing but a really good point. as noted, there are 1%ers and there are bikers. the yuppies aren't really trying to look like criminals...although some do go out and start up AMA sanctioned clubs or wear club like patches (as long as the patch doesn't actually have all the components of colors they aren't really colors and, as long as you don't use real clubbers images
on them, won't get your butt kicked by clubbers....although your attitude might).
some people might take offense at this but, it's the truth. the yuppies were formally hippies who supposedly stood for something. after they were done partying ad fornicating their way across the country they came back to a country with a lot of opportunities. many came from money
originally, anyway. they took these opportunities and, for the most part, did very well. twenty years later they looked at themselves and found they had become everything they had claimed to hate (plus some). so, they went out in search of something 'real' to pretend to be. some of them took up the biker image. you don't get more real, gritty, or anti-establishment than that. some started listening to country music
(which they, then, ruined...like they did the biker scene) and pretended to be tough, hardworking average American 'rednecks'.
that's what it comes down to. plain and simple.
[hell, a lot of them are actually scared of motorcycles so they buy trikes. there has been a huge swell in the number of trikers over the last decade. i don't even bother to wave back at those guys. you can tell them from the crippled bikers who ride trikes and sidecars because they can't ride on two wheels anymore by the big mass produced blockish high dollar trikes they ride. if you want the image and you don't even have the cajones to brave two wheels, i got nothing to say to you.]
point 3. real quick as it has nothing to do with sailing. HD has been really advertising their 'cool' image towards younger people and adjusting it as they go. they have made a number of different looking bike lines, lately (notice i said different looking), and are really pushing towards younger people. will it save them when all the yuppies get too old to ride or die off? who knows. god forbid they do what other brands do and try to offer new, better machines every year. they are apparently going to ride the image train til it runs off the track. it's what saved them from oblivion.
point4. yes. that's the same thing that happens with sailing. i listen to jimmy buffet. love his music
. i also love sea chanties and that song by the little river band and...and, being also a biker, you may .no. strike that. you will see skull and jolly roger images
in my near vicinity. i like a bit of rum
as i relax, smoking my pipe, from time to time. and people may look at me and say 'oh my god! stay away from that pirate looking jimmy buffet listening butthole.'
but, the truth is, i'm very serious about my sailing. i follow the rules of the road. i practice good seamanship to the very best of my ability. i am always eager to listen and learn what i don't know. i am polite and respectful of my neighbors [including shoveling the snow off of the dock
for the older lady who lives aboard the cal
2-27 in the winter and donating lines and fenders to poorly attended sailboats whose owners live far away] and i help others out all the time. i am friendly and jovial and most people enjoy talking to me. everyone at the marina knows me and enjoys conversing with me (albeit many like to talk about boat issues they are having and what to do about them) and i have never been cursed as a butthole.
but, if anyone is soooo wise that they can judge a book by it's cover and want nothing to do with me because of said flawed wisdom....eh their loss.
that's my point.