How much is too much

[Dirk Williams]

concerned about too much weight. boats a 33.5, weighs roughly 11500.

Is their a standard formula regarding how much weight I can add, in panels anchors chain " lots of chain" goal is Alaska, " everything I read says a minimum of 300ft" cabin heaters, and the rest of the required associated gear.

I don't want to turn her into a pig in the water, or a capsize waiting to happen.

Any advice ?

DW

[accomplice]

Not all weight is created equal.
Weight in the keel -- generally good; weight aloft -- generally bad; weight at the ends -- try to minimize.

There have been threads about where to store anchor chain. If I had to carry 300ft of chain on an 11,500# boat, I'd not want all of it far out at the bow. Would you notice your boat handling differently with two guys sitting at the bow? In a 33' 11,500# boat, I would think so. Would it be a capsize waiting to happen? I wouldn't go that far -- it depends on hull shape, etc.

[Dirk Williams]

Thank you for the reply, honestly I don't know what I'm doing, I have great ideas, but frankly count on the logic of this crowd. I'm very concerned about the weight.

300 feet of chains is huge, only logical place to stow it, is midship under the floor boards. Did I mention three over sized anchors, and a smallish 23/24 lb danforth for a stern anchor. I've purchased 200 feet, complete,chain it's roughly 100/110 pounds. All three oversized anchors add up to 135 lbs. I,still need to purchase 100/150 ft.


I follow Capn fatty, I agree with his approach, and Im 110% with safety first.

Adding a monitor/ AUTOHELM, to the stern,50 lbs, I'd like a tower on the stern for solar panels, it's halfway complete, it's going to be roughly 100 pounds, plus the panels.

Fuel, water, water maker, heater, propane tanks, for cooking and hot water.

My fuel tanks 28/30 gallons, so I've got to carry jerry cans lashed to the deck. Thinking I'll need to carry one complete refill, between fuel stops up north.

Haven't even gotten into food, first aid, my gear, 4/6 batteries for the panels.

Everytime I turn around I'm adding 25 to 50 pounds. It's adding up quick.

I watch "you tube vids", of folks just cramming stuff into every possible inch, their decks appear Clustered and dangerous.

I'm trying to find that balance, that's safe, comfortable, and and not look like an episode of " Horders"


So is 1000 pounds of stuff, evenly dispersed on this SV, a reasonable number, is 1500 Lbs the number, I just don't know how to calculate it.

I thought about not finishing the tower, and hanging the solar off port and starboard on the rails, but the SV, sits low in the water, I'm afraid heeled she might be dragging panels in water, with enough weight I think is likely.

The boats a HR 33 with very low gunnel height.

And maybe I think,to much.
Dirk

[Panope]

Dirk,

I've got the same goal as you (Alaska). While I am a big fan of "all chain" rodes for chafe safety, 300 ft of chain was just a bit much so I compromised with 160 ft of chain mixed with a bunch of nylon rope rode.

If I do happen to be anchored in something like 100 feet of water, an option is to limit the amount of rode so that only chain is lying on the bottom. This somewhat short scope will be fine in light conditions.

If/when the wind builds, extra rode can be payed out to increase scope without worry of the rope portion contacting/abrading the bottom.

I believe the actual number times you will need all 300 ft will be seldom.

Steve

[Paul L]

According to sailcalc your waterline should drop 1 inch for each 929lbs

[Dirk Williams]

I know it seems like an over kill to me. I did get an email from Capn fatty telling me 200 feet and good nylon rode should work. It's the " should work" that concerns me.

He did offer some reasonable solutions, like don't store 200 feet in the chain locker with my monster CQR, anchor. Suggested stowing the anchor at the base of the mast lashed tightly. Stow the long chain rode mid ship low, like in the bilge.

I've been on the net all morning, looking for answers, some make sense, some o math VxWxWLX gunnel height? My point is it's all greek to me.

What I've read is that my boats weight of 11500, is empty. I'm looking at almost 480 in water and. Roughly 210 with 28/30 g of diesel. So 700 before I add anything.

I crunched the numbers and come up with a conservative number of 1950lbs when water and fuel are factored pounds above and beyond the factory weight of,11500. The actual water line is like 25.4 ft on a 33.5 length boat.

This totals my over all weight at "13600"without crew yet. Add 1000 for crew and their kit, Beer booze etc etc, and we're at 14600.

And I haven't even left the pier yet.

I don't know that number just sounds way to high for a stable good handling 33.5 long boat.

Thoughts?

Dirk

[smj]

Originally Posted by Dirk Williams

I know it seems like an over kill to me. I did get an email from Capn fatty telling me 200 feet and good nylon rode should work. It's the " should work" that concerns me.



He did offer some reasonable solutions, like don't store 200 feet in the chain locker with my monster CQR, anchor. Suggested stowing the anchor at the base of the mast lashed tightly. Stow the long chain rode mid ship low, like in the bilge.



I've been on the net all morning, looking for answers, some make sense, some o math VxWxWLX gunnel height? My point is it's all greek to me.



What I've read is that my boats weight of 11500, is empty. I'm looking at almost 480 in water and. Roughly 210 with 28/30 g of diesel. So 700 before I add anything.



I crunched the numbers and come up with a conservative number of 1950lbs when water and fuel are factored pounds above and beyond the factory weight of,11500. The actual water line is like 25.4 ft on a 33.5 length boat.



This totals my over all weight at "13600"without crew yet. Add 1000 for crew and their kit, Beer booze etc etc, and we're at 14600.



And I haven't even left the pier yet.



I don't know that number just sounds way to high for a stable good handling 33.5 long boat.



Thoughts?



Dirk

Throw the oversized CQR anchor overboard, get a lighter new generation anchor that will have greater holding than the CQR , and voila! Now you can ad the weight of more chain.

[Stumble]

First you need to rethink the anchors. You need one big one on the bow. One moderate one as a stern, and one broken down big anchor in the bilge. That's it.

300' of chain on a 33' boat is really too much. I would go with 150' of chain and 150' of nylon. Ideally carried connected, but in separate bins on the anchor locker.

[UNCIVILIZED]

It's good that you're concerned about this. Ditto on your keepng track of it. And for me the best way to watch a boat's weight gain is to break things down by category, & then to try & winnow out extra mass. This while aiming at a specific target for how much my total will be.

For most boats, it's tough to get the total to be much less than a ton for what it sounds like you want to do with the boat. And on a 40'er it's easy to have 2T+
In the end, the numbers are up to you. Though as stated, try & keep the heavy stuff down low, & out of the boat's ends.

I'd prefer to have many jugs on deck, as the weight adds up quickly. And while they're handy, some spare tankage would be preferred. Also, I'm not sure what you're using for chain? But if you can switch to a smaller size, but higher schedule, it'll save you weight. You can also do things like use G-10 for windlass & cleat backing plates, in lieu of metal. Especially when you bond them in place, & also tap them if you like (along with still using nuts).

The other "trick" to employ for weight control is to offload Everything onboard, & inventory it all. Then, prior to putting gear back, ask yourself if item X, or Y is truly needed, or whether it's a want(ed item). This really does do a lot to help the boat to "float higher" if you're somewhat ruthless about it. And it pays to do it a few times a year. Even more so if you weigh each item. Plus, seeing it all layed out together on land is sobering. Often enough so that it's not quite so difficult to be ruthless about what doesn't go back onboard.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Dirk Williams

.............I crunched the numbers and come up with a conservative number of 1950lbs when water and fuel are factored pounds above and beyond the factory weight of,11500. The actual water line is like 25.4 ft on a 33.5 length boat.

This totals my over all weight at "13600"without crew yet. Add 1000 for crew and their kit, Beer booze etc etc, and we're at 14600.

And I haven't even left the pier yet.

I don't know that number just sounds way to high for a stable good handling 33.5 long boat.

Thoughts?

Dirk

I have been operating my 34 foot boat about 2500 pounds over design weight and it is completely safe and handles fine. I sometimes take groups of up to 15 people (adding ANOTHER 2000 pounds) on day trips and the only noticeable difference is the boat goes a bit slower.

The trip to Alaska is mostly a motor boat ride. Sailing performance is not particularly important unless you are a purist.

Steve

[Island Time O25]

One season I had 210' of 3/8 chain plus 2 35# anchors at the bow rollers. The boat is 36' and 17000# plus gear. I could see a considerable degradation of performance as well as bow being wetter much sooner than usual. Plus boat seemed more sluggish. At the end of the season took the chain and one anchor off (put the anchor into under cockpit lazarette) and replaced it with 75' 5/16" chain plus 150' of nylon rode. What a difference.

I could have placed the chain deep under the v-berth, low enough to improve the performance considerably. But that would mean a chain stack in the middle of the v-berth. And I am not there yet in my cruising plans to affect such a sacrifice.

[NewMoon]

Fifteen summers and some 40,000 nm on the coast of BC and SE Alaska:

On my 11,000lb (loaded) 26-footer, I used 40' of 1/4" HT chain spliced to 300' 1/2" rope. 7.5 kg Bruce, and later 10 kg Rocna. Rarely needed more than 200' total out.

Anchor depth max was 70', typical 40-60', sometimes only 25'. Anchorages are almost always well protected coves. Scope usually 3.5:1 unless strong winds forecast.

Last summer in a 37-footer weighing 28,000lb, I had 250' chain and 150' rope, 20kg Rocna. Never got to the rope in four months.

For your light 33-footer, I'd say 200' chain w/ 200' rope would be more than adequate. Even 150 feet of chain would work well.

PS: ditch the CQR, get a scoop (Rocna, Mantus etc). 20kg would be plenty

[carlheintz]

IMHO, 300 ft of chain is WAY overdone. I'd suggest no more than 50' It's more important to have a couple of different anchors designed for different conditions than so much chain.

The others' recommendation of an anchor at the stern and a spare in the bilge is excellent. I can count the number of times that stern anchor saved me from some disaster or another, but each one was a "whoa, am I glad I had that thing"

[akprb]

We live in AK but have limited our cruising to warmer latitudes.

That being said have noticed many up here using cable. You might want to google :-)

[Dirk Williams]

Thank you for your replies. Let's see, I've already purchased a 200 foot section of 1/4 high grade chain, I initially questioned the use of 1/4 chain.

a couple suggested ratio/size chain anchor sites, say high end 1/4 is perfect. So I purchased it.

What's puzzling me, is everything I find is "suggested" nothing definitive.
I can see a monster racna anchor in my very near future. I've got the Danforth 13s, I'd like to mount on the stern rail, would 50 foot of 5/8 chain and 150/200 ft rode be sufficient? This would be my initial stern anchor, I'm told this style anchor works well in the SF delta.

I spent last night trying to loose boat weight. What do I not need, I re considered my solar tower, I'm not certain, but I'm thinking that alone is 100 lb weight loss.

Re considered mounting the 3 two hundred watt panels on the rails. Man I'm skeptical, my freeboard on the HR-33 is low low low. I'm afraid I might rip a panel off while heeled hard. Not that I plan on sailing this cruiser hard, just think,it wise to consider obvious problems.

While I don't have the water maker yet, I,consider it mandatory, while I've got a Perkins 4-108 or 107, I've got a ton of useful power. Got a big alternator on the motor as well.

I realize I'll be motoring a lot up north, so keeping batteries charged isn't going to be a problem, so at least for this adventure I see five/six diesel cans as mandatory. I don't think I can re plumb a bigger tank, without huge expense.

I've considered a smaller water tank, post, water maker, the existing tanks in great shape, really no,reason to yard it out for a new one, until required.

Thank all of you, I value your input. I'm doing baby steps, but thinking end of summer for these modern tools.

Thank you again for your input.

Dirk