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Old 19-07-2011, 19:19   #16
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

kat watches the fishies cook......big enough fish fit nice on a bbq. smaller ones for sashimi and ceviche..yummmmmmmmmmm
learned more recipes for ceviche while i cruised on down to mazatlan--my crew being a mexican national from ensenada who is professional fisherman and preparer of fishies as well as 1600 tonner and diesel mechanic..lol had a ball!!
caught the 60 kt winds north of cabo and rode niiiice....
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Old 19-07-2011, 21:42   #17
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

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Originally Posted by daddle View Post
This high...
Daddle I did this kind of run with a rum in one hand, a spatula in the other one leg steadying the basil under the boom, the other holding a swordfish on the line between my toes and tacking with the jib sheet in my teeth, steering with my left knee. My sails were made by Grandma and her friends quilting club.
But I like a downhill run more any day of the week.

You shoulda seen the size of that fish...
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Old 19-07-2011, 21:55   #18
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

About 2 6-paks is my limit
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Old 19-07-2011, 22:14   #19
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

That 53 degrees doesn't sound right. It should be more like 43.

Next time you sail can you take a compass bearing on one tack and then on the other and tell us the difference. 106 degrees ? I dunno. Something very wrong. Even old sails won't give you 106.

Got some pics of the boat under sail ?
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Old 19-07-2011, 22:27   #20
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

I have a Niagara 35 with a lightweight 130% genoa on it at the moment. It's quite light, and I think it's stretching a fair amount in the wind, so I'm not getting it very flat. We had a nice steady 10 kt wind with very small chop on our last trick, and I set up the tacktick to give me VMG and AWA. I was very, very surprised by what I found.

To stream the telltales nicely and get that "powered up in the groove" feeling, I'd be at about 45 deg AWA, maybe a couple degrees less. That was certainly our best boat speed, and it all looked and felt right. Then I started pinching up and the VMG kept going up as I slowed down (giving lots of time to come to steady state, not shooting it up into the wind). I was actually fastest when the inner telltales were all over the place and the luff started to get that "soft" look, just before it starts to luff.

End of the day, I gained a knot of VMG and made the boat more comfortable by pinching up to 28-30 degrees AWA. True wind angle was about 45 degrees, making for a 90 degree tacking angle. Surprising good, considering it's a shallow keel and sheeted to the rail. I can't wait to try in different conditions and with my lapper headsail.

One interesting note: I gained half a knot of boat speed when I realized I hadn't left enough slack in the furling line. On the tack I'd unfurled on it was fine, but when I tacked, the foil couldn't rotate due to the line being cleated off and spoiled the flow over the luff. Learned lots of great stuff that day.
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Old 19-07-2011, 22:48   #21
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

Colt 45 and 2 zig zag's and baby that's all I need!
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Old 19-07-2011, 23:07   #22
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

Somewhere in here there's got to be a link to a discussion about "gearshifting" and getting the boatspeed up before you can point. And, a boat like a J has enough adjustments that it's easy to get a little out of trim and lose some pointing.
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Old 20-07-2011, 04:47   #23
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A well setup J24 will tack through 80 and hence point at 40 or even better and still go. I know this as I race against one in a 8m beneteaux first class 8 ( damm those Js)

Dave
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Old 20-07-2011, 04:56   #24
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

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A well setup J24 will tack through 80 and hence point at 40 or even better and still go. I know this as I race against one in a 8m beneteaux first class 8 ( damm those Js)

Dave
If you are tacking through 80 degrees, then the apparent wind shift is much less than 40 either way - more likely just under +/-30
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Old 20-07-2011, 05:09   #25
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

A J24 isn't fast enough for that. They only do about 5 1/2 upwind.
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Old 20-07-2011, 06:41   #26
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
That 53 degrees doesn't sound right. It should be more like 43.

Next time you sail can you take a compass bearing on one tack and then on the other and tell us the difference. 106 degrees ? I dunno. Something very wrong. Even old sails won't give you 106.

Got some pics of the boat under sail ?
I would respectfully disagree with that.

A 106 degree tack on the GPS with no current is pretty average for a good cruising boat with decent sails in good conditions and without pinching. Maybe in perfect conditions -- 18 knots of wind, flat calm seas -- a bit better.

86 degrees is near the ragged edge of what is even possible on very well set up racer-cruisers in good conditions.

I spent a couple of weeks on a Swan 90 with fresh laminated sails run by a professional captain, and we were very happy to get 90 degree tacks (and usually did not).

It's hard to tell what we do in our present boat -- a Moody 54 -- because we sail in strongly tidal waters and there is usually a current running which distorts the angles. But I don't think I've ever seen anything less than 90 degrees even in perfect conditions. I plan for about 100 degrees in very good conditions, and if the wind is up and we're reefed down at all, or if we are bashing into any kind of seas, it will be much worse than that.

Don't confuse AWA -- apparent wind angle -- with your tacking angles. You can't just multiply AWA by two to get your tacking angle -- AWA is distorted by the apparent wind effect, and besides that, takes no account for leeway. In really good conditions we can see 40 degrees of AWA without pinching, but we certainly don't tack through 80 degrees. It's more like 95 to 100.
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Old 20-07-2011, 07:27   #27
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

Sunday in 15 knots we were pointing 30 deg off the app wind consistently on both tacks according to the wind instrument, so a swing of 60 deg apparent tack to tack.
Pretty new Doyle sails, full battened main, 160 Genoa, Gen blocks well back, Mizzen sheeted hard, and traveler to windward with the board down. Consistent 6.5 to 7 knots boat speed.
Don't know what true tack to tack was as I didn't look or care. Probably around 90-100 deg as the AP is set to tack at 110 deg and after sheeting in and resetting the traveler I would point up a bit from where I tacked.
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Old 20-07-2011, 07:35   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcobra
Sunday in 15 knots we were pointing 30 deg off the app wind consistently on both tacks according to the wind instrument, so a swing of 60 deg apparent tack to tack.
Pretty new Doyle sails, full battened main, 160 Genoa, Gen blocks well back, Mizzen sheeted hard, and traveler to windward with the board down. Consistent 6.5 to 7 knots boat speed.
Don't know what true tack to tack was as I didn't look or care. Probably around 90-100 deg as the AP is set to tack at 110 deg and after sheeting in and resetting the traveler I would point up a bit from where I tacked.
Don't use your wing gauge to measure your tack angles. Use your compass and do the math. You'll get a much more honest figure.
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Old 20-07-2011, 07:54   #29
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcobra View Post
Sunday in 15 knots we were pointing 30 deg off the app wind consistently on both tacks according to the wind instrument, so a swing of 60 deg apparent tack to tack.
Pretty new Doyle sails, full battened main, 160 Genoa, Gen blocks well back, Mizzen sheeted hard, and traveler to windward with the board down. Consistent 6.5 to 7 knots boat speed.
Don't know what true tack to tack was as I didn't look or care. Probably around 90-100 deg as the AP is set to tack at 110 deg and after sheeting in and resetting the traveler I would point up a bit from where I tacked.
That sounds about right. The autopilot shows you the angle from one HEADING to another. This reflects true wind; your wind instrument is showing the angle to apparent wind.

But to know your real tacking angle there is one more factor which your heading doesn't take into consideration -- leeway.

So add some more for leeway, and you will get the angles you see on your track in your chart plotter, which is your real tacking angle. 100 to 105 degrees is pretty good for a cruising boat. Anything under 100 is starting to get really good, in my book.
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Old 20-07-2011, 07:59   #30
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Re: How High Can You Sail ?

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IDon't confuse AWA -- apparent wind angle -- with your tacking angles. You can't just multiply AWA by two to get your tacking angle -- AWA is distorted by the apparent wind effect, and besides that, takes no account for leeway. In really good conditions we can see 40 degrees of AWA without pinching, but we certainly don't tack through 80 degrees. It's more like 95 to 100.
Last month my yacht was doing 7 knots and showing about 30 apparent. Then I hit the "TRUE" button on the wind instrument and got a very disappointing reading So I decided to go back to APP and sail on in denial

I realise now that my surprise was due to the fact that back in the 80's when I was last regularly sailing we only ever had AWA on the dial and never had to face reality.
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