How Can You Douse Your Main Sail in a Hard Blow DDW?

[carstenb]

ON another thread, Iposted this video and it brings an interesting subject to mind. How can you douse your main in this kind of blow? Aside form just cutting it away.

I'm aware of a couple who sailed from Galapogus to Fiji with their sails full up in a heavy blow for a week, because they said they simply couldn't reef or get it down

I have single line reefing from the cockpit on my main (first two reefs) so I suppose I could just winch the damn thing down.

Any other suggestions? The couple I mentioned above noted they felt they could not round up (fear of a real knock-down)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK1tZljrwAc

[brownoarsman]

I guess the answer is to have a catboat rig, just let the sails rotate!


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[fallingeggs]

Well, many (if not most) agree having a solid battcar system gives the least friction (at a price, of course). Between it, double line reefing, and a self tailing winch, I'd expect to get the main down in anything.

That's the plan at least.


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[Wrong]

I can't play the video on my tablet, so I'm responding solely to the question as posed and rather than do 'double work' have copied in my response provided in another thread.

I have my halyards and reefing lines led through swivel, turning blocks and organizers to clutches. The arrangement introduces a fair amount of friction, but this is overcome with a two speed winch located on the cabin top, port side.

This arrangement enables me to handle everything safely from the cockpit. When sailing in ocean conditions, my wind vane">Aries wind vane is a reliable partner enabling me to leave the cockpit most anytime I choose.

Since South Pacific cruising entails mostly downwind sailing, I find myself frequently needing to reduce sail in order to control weather helm and forces on the vane that otherwise negatively affects its performance.

To reef when dailing 'DDW', I bring the mainsail admidship engaging both preventers very securely. In order to keep the leech from being blown forward into the shrouds, I slowly ease the main halyard while at the same time pulling in on the jiffy reef line run through a cringle in the leech. Alternately I pull in the reefing line tied to a reefing cringle in the mainsail luff. As a matter of habit I typically tie the reefing points which keeps the sail captive on the boom if I need to throw in another reef later on. This can be repeated until the mainsail is completely secured on the boom. Of course, keeping the mainsail leech directly into the wind is paramount in order to minimize effort and maintain control. My question for the OP is provided wave height and shape will not make doing so unsafe, why not heave to until conditions improve? Eliminating the mainsail is not in my view the right response.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Wrong

I can't play the video on my tablet, so I'm responding solely to the question as posed and rather than do 'double work' have copied in my response provided in another thread.

I have my halyards and reefing lines led through swivel, turning blocks and organizers to clutches. The arrangement introduces a fair amount of friction, but this is overcome with a two speed winch located on the cabin top, port side.

This arrangement enables me to handle everything safely from the cockpit. When sailing in ocean conditions, my Aries wind vane is a reliable partner enabling me to leave the cockpit most anytime I choose.

Since South Pacific cruising entails mostly downwind sailing, I find myself frequently needing to reduce sail in order to control weather helm and forces on the vane that otherwise negatively affects its performance.

To reef when dailing 'DDW', I bring the mainsail admidship engaging both preventers very securely. In order to keep the leech from being blown forward into the shrouds, I slowly ease the main halyard while at the same time pulling in on the jiffy reef line run through a cringle in the leech. Alternately I pull in the reefing line tied to a reefing cringle in the mainsail luff. As a matter of habit I typically tie the reefing points which keeps the sail captive on the boom if I need to throw in another reef later on. This can be repeated until the mainsail is completely secured on the boom. Of course, keeping the mainsail leech directly into the wind is paramount in order to minimize effort and maintain control. My question for the OP is provided wave height and shape will not make doing so unsafe, why not heave to until conditions improve? Eliminating the mainsail is not in my view the right response.

I can only agee with heaving to, my boat however (fin keel - spade rudder) sdoesn't heave to unless the mainsail is at least double reefed.

I wonder how you're going to get the boom (and sail) amidships in a very heavy blow - that will take a lot of muscle power. Certainly on my boat with a 46 sq meter main - it is a difficult chore indeed - and I've not tried it in 50+ knots (and I hope never to have to)

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by carstenb

I can only agee with heaving to, my boat however (fin keel - spade rudder) sdoesn't heave to unless the mainsail is at least double reefed.

I wonder how you're going to get the boom (and sail) amidships in a very heavy blow - that will take a lot of muscle power. Certainly on my boat with a 46 sq meter main - it is a difficult chore indeed - and I've not tried it in 50+ knots (and I hope never to have to)

What's missing in this whole scenario was an early response to changing conditions. You know the saying about when to reef - when you first think about it.

As the wind builds - and it's normally the case that wind strength increases incrementally rather than all at once - a mainsail should be progressively reefed. So, you should never be in a position where you're wrestling with fully deployed main in 50+ knots...

[Davidjames]

Safe sailing would recommend doing this before the winds get out of control. Better safe than sorry!!

[Nadezhda]

I have standard at-the-mast double-line reefing. I loosen the main halyard and winch-in the reefing-pennant in an attempt to stop the sail bagging onto the stays. The luff then seems to travel down the track quite easily. I have taken the sail down in this way in a force 9 or above.

I know people with single line reefing who are also able to reef DDW.

However, I would never sail actually Dead-Down-Wind in a blow because the following waves will slew you around and almost certainly lead to a crash-jibe. Then your sail will come down on its own accord. Along with the mast and boom!

[wesevans]

For the cruising sailor the time to reef is when you first think about it. It is a good policy to put in a reef before dark bringing the head of the main down to the spreaders.

[Captain Fred]

No less a sailor that Carleton Mitchell, three-time winner of the Newport-Bermuda race in his 37-foot S&S centerboard yawl Finisterre, Said "The main is the last sail to come down on my boat" when talking about the 1960 Race in which seven boats were dismasted. You've got to head up to unload the sail and bring the boom near the centerline while you reef. Do it before the blow - don't wait! If you can't handle ocean weather, you shouldn't be out there.

[Dockhead]

Yes, heave-to if sea conditions permit. Sheet in the main as you go around, just enough to keep it from flogging. For some reason, the backed headsail counteracts the forces on the main, and you will not go over ilke you will if you attempt to sail.

This is a huge advantage of in-mast furling for ocean sailing, because you can reef while the sail is loaded up.

Obviously the first answer is don't get caught out like that in the first place.

Sailing downwind in strong, squally weather, I certainly do NOT do as the racer above suggested -- the main goes away first. Sail with rolled up headsail alone -- much more stable, and much easier and safer to vary sail area -- even if you have in-mast furling.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, heave-to if sea conditions permit. Sheet in the main as you go around, just enough to keep it from flogging. For some reason, the backed headsail counteracts the forces on the main, and you will not go over ilke you will if you attempt to sail.

This is a huge advantage of in-mast furling for ocean sailing, because you can reef while the sail is loaded up.

Obviously the first answer is don't get caught out like that in the first place.

Sailing downwind in strong, squally weather, I certainly do NOT do as the racer above suggested -- the main goes away first. Sail with rolled up headsail alone -- much more stable, and much easier and safer to vary sail area -- even if you have in-mast furling.

And, if conditions warrant heaving to after you've dispensed with the mainsail...?

[carstenb]

Very obviously you reef at the first sign of approaching bad weather. And I have the habit of reefing very early (i'm in no hurry).

Having said that - the question was:

assuming you get caught, for whatever reason (squalls etc can sneak up on you at night) how can you douse your mainsail if going DDW?

Let's face it - we all say (and think) we're careful sailors - but Sh*t happens to everyone at some time or another.

[Nadezhda]

Only if you have replaced it with a tri-sail http://www.cruisersforum.com/images/.../whistling.gif

[northwestsailor]

Two things related to downwind reefing and striking:

1) we have installed a Strong track https://www.tidesmarine.com/sailtrack which greatly facilitates raising and striking a mainsail especially a large one. With the strong track I can usually raise the sail solo without the need for the winch. This was just not possible before the installation due to fiction alone.

2) I usually install a downhaul line from the boom gooseneck through the 3rd reef cringle back down to another winch on the mast. This allows fantastic reef and striking control when you need it most i.e. not headed into the wind. No matter what the main is coming down whether you need to just drop to the next reefing point or a full strike.

Of course reefing early and heading into the wind is most ideal but not always easy with a short crew seaway etc.