Hoisting and Dousing an Aeso with a sock?

[OldFrog75]

Is it possible to raise and douse an aeso with a sock when running a windward - leeward - windward course with the genoa out or do most people furl the genoa first. (It's rigged to gybe outside the headstay).

The sock seems a lot more cumbersome outside the genoa than with a symmetrical spinnaker which can be raised or lowered with genoa working.

[Sailmonkey]

Sure, just hoist the spin in the sock behind the genoa, jus as with a symmetrical kite. Round the mark and lift the sock asthe genoa is being furled. You may need to increase the length of the sock control line to prevent upsetting the foredeck monkey though.

[FSMike]

What's an aeso?

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by FSMike

What's an aeso?

Slang for an asymmetrical spinnaker. I assume it's a misspelling of ISO but I don't know for sure.

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Sure, just hoist the spin in the sock behind the genoa, jus as with a symmetrical kite. Round the mark and lift the sock asthe genoa is being furled. You may need to increase the length of the sock control line to prevent upsetting the foredeck monkey though.

And the reverse of that is...? We totally screwed the pooch during a race today.

Not very much room at the bow pulpit to do anything outside the headstay but I'm guessing the correct procedure is:

1. Unfurl the genoa with the ASO still flying.
2. Standing at the bow pulpit, sock the ASO on the leeward side of the genoa.
3. Release the spinnaker halyard and pull the sock down from the bow pulpit, behind the genoa, and then under the genoa sheet(s) to the foredeck.

Is that correct?

Unfortunately, that's not what we did. We socked the ASO on the windward side of the genoa and laid it on the foredeck. We subsequently ended up with a major cluster **** when we tried to unfurl the genoa because the ASO sheets were now on top of the genoa sheets.

Of course everything is tied off with bowlines instead of hanks or shackles so it took us 5 minutes to sort everything out and pretty much costs us the race.

[GILow]

I don't race, but I do single-hand, so in a way there are some vaguely similar pressures, albeit for different reasons.

If an ASO is another name for Asymetric Spinnaker or MPS, then I have the same sail and I have found the best procedure for me in coming down is to unfurl the genoa inside the MPS while under way, with the sock pull down line tied to the pulpit top rail, at a point outside the genoa.

Then I pull down the sock, grab the lower end of the now be-socked MPS and pull it in underneath the genoa, walking backwards with a fold in the be-socked MPS over my arm, laying it out on the deck so that it ends up folded in half with both the foot and the head up at the pulpit, and both sitting UNDER the genoa. If think I am going to use it again soon, I leave it there after putting a gentle loop in it to bring the bulk of it up closer to the pulpit, or if it is not going to be used for a bit I fold it back into the bag, midpoint first, with the bag latched onto the pulpit top rail. The MPS halyard, which I have been running out usually under my foot during this operation, I make fast to a point on the pulpit also, clear and forward of the genoa furler, and put a little tension on it to keep it out of the way.

Getting it back up again I just haul it back up in the wind shadow of the genoa, but depending on which tack I am on, I have to unhook the foot and hook it back on on the other side of the forestay before I do so. Get it flying ok, then roll the genoa away.

Not sure if this procedure is fast enough for racing, but it has not caused me any significant line snarls since I worked it out, as long as I remember to keep the MPS halyard tight after making it fast, as it is an accident waiting to happen when I leave it forward of the genoa. But we do have a fair bit of room there.

Matt

[boatman61]

Dunno about a sock... but have done it solo with an ISO set up with a single line furler.. no sweat so figure a socks pretty much the same as the Genoa should absorb/screen the wind pressure.. its all down to timing

[OldFrog75]

[QUOTE=GILow;1456417]
Then I pull down the sock, grab the lower end of the now be-socked MPS and pull it in underneath the genoa, walking backwards with a fold in the be-socked MPS over my arm, laying it out on the deck so that it ends up folded in half with both the foot and the head up at the pulpit, and both sitting UNDER the genoa.

Getting it back up again I just haul it back up in the wind shadow of the genoa, but depending on which tack I am on, I have to unhook the foot and hook it back on on the other side of the forestay before I do so. Get it flying ok, then roll the genoa away.

Matt[/QUOTE

Thanks Matt. Sounds like a good system. When you say "pull it underneath the genoa" do you mean literally pull it under the foot/tack of the genoa on the leeward side of the bow or do you mean pull it under the lazy sheet of the genoa on the windward side (which sounds a lot easier)?

[boatman61]

I'm a lazy Bogga... I leave it up.. but then I don't race..

[GILow]

Originally Posted by OldFrog75

Thanks Matt. Sounds like a good system. When you say "pull it underneath the genoa" do you mean literally pull it under the foot/tack of the genoa on the leeward side of the bow or do you mean pull it under the lazy sheet of the genoa on the windward side (which sounds a lot easier)?

I'd better be careful here, as my terminology is utterly lousy, but I would describe it as I pull it under the tack of the genoa, up quite close to the pulpit, and use the somewhat slippery nature of the sock to let it roll over my arm as I pull it through, or even do a kind of hand over hand pull on the top half of the double fold, if I have managed to get the friction right on the halyard winch. (A rare event)

Does that make sense? It slides really nicely against the genoa (Which is quite high cut, that helps), and provided I don't sprint towards the mast, the friction on my arm is not uncomfortable.

But I guess, as the others have hinted, the real key is to do it all in the wind shadow of the genoa.

Boatman61, I have been tempted to leave it up, from time to time, but I always worry that it will snag at a bad moment. It can sit very snug behind the genoa in the sock, and I although it does not ADD to the performance of the boat, I would say it did not significantly subtract from our performance either. But we are NOT high performance.

Matt

[GILow]

Sorry, I should add, as per your original question, this all happens in the wind shadow of the genoa, on the leeward side of the boat.

Matt

[GILow]

And... further still.... this is why I have to take care to keep track of my tacking, as if I have tacked since pulling the MPS under the genoa, the tack of the MPS is now on the wrong side of the forestay and needs to be quickly unfastened, brought around the BACK of the forestay and reattached. Fortunately, a quick glance at how it is all sitting on the deck serves to clarify, as the tack lead is bright orange, I don't know why, maybe for this very reason, but more likely it was the right length and available at the time.

Matt

[robert sailor]

Using a sock when racing is a waste of time, mind you so is using a cruising chute as your handicap is just a few seconds off a racing chute and they are no where near comparable in speed.
Best to race white sails and save your cruising chute and sock for cruising.

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by GILow

Sorry, I should add, as per your original question, this all happens in the wind shadow of the genoa, on the leeward side of the boat.

Matt

I'll give it a try but the genoa foot is so low, the pulpit so small, and the MPS, as you call it, so large (1400 sq ft) that I'm not sure I can get it under the genoa. Might have to pull it around the bottom of the other (windward) side of the furling foil.

[GILow]

Yes, I guess we are a bit spoiled for space on our foredeck. What we lack in performance we somewhat mitigate with comfort.

I would hate to try pulling the thing around to the windward side of the sail on our boat, I just can't imagine that working, the darn thing is quite bulky even in the sock. But maybe with an agile and capable crew that would work. But wow, 1400 sq ft!? I guess that it gets you moving ok.

Matt