Hoisting and Dousing an Aeso with a sock?

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by GILow

I would hate to try pulling the thing around to the windward side of the sail on our boat, I just can't imagine that working, the darn thing is quite bulky even in the sock. But maybe with an agile and capable crew that would work. But wow, 1400 sq ft!? I guess that it gets you moving ok.

Matt

I'm with you about socking the thing in the wind shadow and pulling it down on that side but as the halyard is eased and the sock comes down, I'm envisioning pulling it aft on the windward side of the headstay because there is so much more room to operate. Not sure I can get the sock under the genoa because the pulpit is so small and the genoa foot so low.

If the pulpit wasn't so small I'd be tempted to mush it down there and hold it with a bungee chord or sail tie.

[GILow]

I can sort of imagine a kind of skipping rope flick might bring it round the forestay and let it subsequently rest against the windward face of the genoa, allowing you to slide it down, with the heal of the boat assisting you as the sock would fall against the sail nicely.

Is there room for one of those nifty rectangular bags you can attach to the safety rails that they use to launch spinnakers from? If so that would keep it nicely ready to relaunch, all you would have to do is move it to the safety rail on the side you wished to hoist from, and if I have my imgaining right here, the foot/tack would remain attached regardless of the tack you were on, and you would simply move the back to the safety rail on the leeward side of the genoa, disconnect the halyard (if you had not done so already) swing it around the forestay (if you had changed tack) and then haul the socked sail up in the shadow of the genoa straight from the bag. And remember, the bag can sit well back from the bow.

But I must admit, I am somewhat stumped by the size of your sail, I would have thought our MPS was closer to 600 sq ft and that's on a 17 ton boat.

Matt

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by GILow

Is there room for one of those nifty rectangular bags you can attach to the safety rails that they use to launch spinnakers from? If so that would keep it nicely ready to relaunch, all you would have to do is move it to the safety rail on the side you wished to hoist from,

But I must admit, I am somewhat stumped by the size of your sail, I would have thought our MPS was closer to 600 sq ft and that's on a 17 ton boat.

Matt

We have the bag and may ultimately go that way. Obviously we're still trying to figure out the fastest most efficient way to do this between race marks.

Admittedly the sail is quite large and therefore a handful. The boat is a Hanse 40 and with the 140 genoa the total sail area is "only" 1200 sq. ft. just to give you some idea.

[boatman61]

I'd be careful pulling down on the windward side and make sure someone you really trust is at the wheel.. got lifted a good 6ft of the deck and nearly flicked over the side when the idiot owner I was assisting with a delivery lost his concentration and went off course as I got it a 3rd of the way down and the wind caught it proper...

[robert sailor]

Seriously if your racing your boat and using a cruising chute you should be hoisting it from a turtle bag. Unfurl your head sail well before reaching the mark and trim it with the chute flying behind it and simply release the tack on the chute, it will flag the spinaker, release the halyard, pull on the sheet and pull it in under the head sail. Repack it and your ready for the next leg. All that screwing around with a sock will just guarantee that your left at the back of the pack. Socks are fine for a cruising couple when time means nothing but they have no place on a race boat.

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Seriously if your racing your boat and using a cruising chute you should be hoisting it from a turtle bag. Unfurl your head sail well before reaching the mark and trim it with the chute flying behind it and simply release the tack on the chute, it will flag the spinaker, release the halyard, pull on the sheet and pull it in under the head sail. Repack it and your ready for the next leg. All that screwing around with a sock will just guarantee that your left at the back of the pack. Socks are fine for a cruising couple when time means nothing but they have no place on a race boat.

Agreed...

It's not really a race boat; more a racer/cruiser (or is it cruiser/racer) that gets raced on occasion and very, very seldom with the asymmetrical.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by OldFrog75

Admittedly the sail is quite large and therefore a handful. The boat is a Hanse 40 and with the 140 genoa the total sail area is "only" 1200 sq. ft. just to give you some idea.

Yeeee-ha! That must be like sailing a seriously steroidal dinghy! WITH accommodation too!

I'll bow out here, my sailing is MUCH more sedate, and I am more troubled by the problems presented by solo sailing than that kind of horsepower management. I like RobertSailor's technique, and I will keep that in mind in case my sock fails to come down one day. I did once launch the MPS carelessly and ended up with the sock control line twisted around the top of the MPS. Thankfully I was able to slowly and gently work the sock down without too much force, but if I had not been able to then letting go the tack sounds like it would work well. Probably would not have thought of doing it that way.

Matt

[jbsail]

Interesting discussion, everyone implicitly seems to assume that the "asy/kite/big flappy thing" is happily socked. Our short handed cruising experience - as opposed to racing with plenty of crew and muscle - is that above 15kn getting the sock back down over 206m2 of spinnaker cloth determined to remained filled, is a nightmare. In fact it's impossible with one person unless the asy is collapsed and stays collapsed.

Any advice on keeping 206m2 of asymmetrical spinnaker collapsed while socking gratefully accepted

JB

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by jbsail

Interesting discussion, everyone implicitly seems to assume that the "asy/kite/big flappy thing" is happily socked. Our short handed cruising experience - as opposed to racing with plenty of crew and muscle - is that above 15kn getting the sock back down over 206m2 of spinnaker cloth determined to remained filled, is a nightmare. In fact it's impossible with one person unless the asy is collapsed and stays collapsed.

Any advice on keeping 206m2 of asymmetrical spinnaker collapsed while socking gratefully accepted

JB

Holy cow! And I thought the 1400 sq ft we are dealing with on a 40' boat was big.

206m2 is like 2200 sq ft isn't it? On a 42' boat that would be a real monster....

[jbsail]

2217 ft2 on a 45ft Elan 450. Goes well! Just a "challenge" in getting it down if the wind builds quickly above about 12kn with only 2 people on board.

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by jbsail

2217 ft2 on a 45ft Elan 450. Goes well! Just a "challenge" in getting it down if the wind builds quickly above about 12kn with only 2 people on board.

I'll bet

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by jbsail

Interesting discussion, everyone implicitly seems to assume that the "asy/kite/big flappy thing" is happily socked. Our short handed cruising experience - as opposed to racing with plenty of crew and muscle - is that above 15kn getting the sock back down over 206m2 of spinnaker cloth determined to remained filled, is a nightmare. In fact it's impossible with one person unless the asy is collapsed and stays collapsed.

Any advice on keeping 206m2 of asymmetrical spinnaker collapsed while socking gratefully accepted

JB

I agree that socking it is the tricky part, once the wind gets up.

My preference is to rig the tack with a trigger shackle (like a Sparcraft or Wichard big-boat snapshackle) and take the sock downhaul back to the leeward chainplates prior to dousing.

Oversheet the A-sail*

Trip the tack shackle (there are ways of doing this remotely if you're alone, using a strop around the trigger bar, and dumping the tail of the tack line from a cleat back at the mast)

Leave the sheet alone; Haul the sock down the leech.

Works for me even in a hard squall.

- - - - -

* (similar technique works OK with symm-sails, as well, but triggering the tack release remotely from the mast is trickier - Googling "martin-breaker" might throw something up - this was a setup first used to keep the bowman from having to go out to the end of the pole in dangerous conditions on the early Whitbread maxis) and blanket it with the genoa. Still used sometimes on big boats, especially with prods or sprits)