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Old 04-07-2011, 20:41   #16
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Re: Heeling and new sailor

Aloha Navy PT,
Good to have you asking questions such as this. I learned through a Red Cross course taught on a lake in very large wood gaff rigged sloop lake boats. My next experience was in a Wildflower 12 foot sloop made of foam. You guessed it. Very different. My first step on the bow to get aboard the Wildflower dumped me in the water. My first lessons were in very calm and light winds over a sea of glass so it did not prepare me for what could happen in heavier weather. No one should expect basic sailing to cover every aspect of sailing. Everything was a new experience after that and there was no way that my first lessons would prepare me for what I would experience throughout my life of sailing.
Hang in there. When a quick gust of wind comes up there are two options no matter if its a squall or a cats paw. You either head up into the wind or ease out the main to spill a bit of air. Depending on where you are going and how close the quarters are determines which you do in each circumstance. If I want to maintain my course I just spill a bit of air out of the main by easing the mainsheet. You should be able to spot the higher winds coming by watching for increased ripples or white caps on the water to windward. You'll be prepared.
kind regards,
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Old 04-07-2011, 20:42   #17
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Re: Heeling and new sailor

Oh, I think a Hunter 180 is 18 feet?
Funny how they just can't say Hunter 18. 180 sounds so much larger.
kind regards,
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Old 04-07-2011, 21:16   #18
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Re: Heeling and new sailor

There is a big difference between 18' an 22' boats even with similar shapes and ballasting, no surprise the smaller boat felt a lot less stable.

To me a squall is a cats paw writ very very large and with rain to boot usually.
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:15   #19
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Re: Heeling and new sailor

Quote:
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If I may chime in.

Your basic keelboat/ ASA 100 is a two day 16 hour course. Not much direction if you think about it considering how much can go bad FAST on a sailboat. They have a basic curriculum which I am sure covers heeling. Depending on the class location & class teaching environment, heeling may be expounded upon to different degrees.

I don't see how any basic keelboat class can be a waste of money.

Good luck NavyPT!
Each time you go out you will expand your knowledge & comfort zone.
I do.
If I'd paid for a course expecting it to enable me to sail a keelboat, and earned the certificate, and ended up with...

"...we started to heel a little too much... what is the best course of action if this happens again?" ... the training is pathetic IMO.

This is no reflection on NavyPT at all.
He wants the answers and he's getting them. But to my way of thinking it confirms than many... not all, but many courses are there to pay the rent and issue certificates, not necessarily producing a minimum level of competence.

If he was bearing down on me, I'd rather he had experience than a certificate.
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:17   #20
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Re: Heeling and New Sailor

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, NavyPT.

If it was actually a Hunter 18, did you have the board down?
Hunter 18 ➥ Hunter Sailboats – North America's largest manufacturer of sailboats from 15 to 50 feet
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:30   #21
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Re: Heeling and New Sailor

think he got frightened off, he has not posted any replies to some great tips here..........
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:43   #22
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Re: Heeling and New Sailor

NavyPT, my first boat was a venture (Mac) 21 with a swing keel. My first day in 15 to 20 scared the crap outta me because the boat was so tender and heeled so fast before hardening up. I spent all day rounding up and going nowhere. A few weeks later, I got the same conditions and feeling hardcore, refused to ease the main or round up. The boat snapped over to about 30* and flat scooted along with the keel cable screaming. While I was flying it was interesting to note that the water stayed out of the boat. After that, heeling never bothered me again.
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Old 05-07-2011, 18:02   #23
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Re: Heeling and New Sailor

Ha, I haven't been scared off - just working! The tips have been great and kind of affirmed what I was thinking. I really appreciate it. The boat is 18' and the keel was down. It probably wasn't even close to capsizing but being that it was the first time I took a boat out on my own it felt like it. Next time I'll ride it out a little longer and keep my hand on the main sheet just to show myself that it won't go over. Going out again this weekend, I'm hooked!
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Old 05-07-2011, 18:15   #24
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Re: Heeling and new sailor

VirtualVagabond, what constitutes the minimum level of competence? The ASA guidelines for the course. I was able to demonstrate all of these properly during the course, and I was able to sail the boat from the dock and back (without motor as we had in the course, pretty proud of myself!) SAFELY around other traffic, both power boats and sailboats, without a hiccup. Besides, for those who don't own a sailboat or have family/friends who do to teach you how to sail, how do you ever get to rent one without getting a keelboat cert?
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Old 05-07-2011, 18:17   #25
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Re: Heeling and New Sailor

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Ha, I haven't been scared off - just working! The tips have been great and kind of affirmed what I was thinking. I really appreciate it. The boat is 18' and the keel was down. It probably wasn't even close to capsizing but being that it was the first time I took a boat out on my own it felt like it. Next time I'll ride it out a little longer and keep my hand on the main sheet just to show myself that it won't go over. Going out again this weekend, I'm hooked!
A friend recently told me he was selling his Hunter daysailer as it was unsailable on SF bay - unstable, too much windage.

I looked the hunter 18 up and it's a pretty light boat, light enough that the crew weight is very significant and you should be shifting your weight around to keep the boat level. They may not have focussed on this on the BK course but the lighter and smaller the boat, the more you have to be aware of the levelness of the boat and your position in it.
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Old 05-07-2011, 23:42   #26
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And then there are some sailboats which are so tender/unstable that they will lie flat in any wind. Don't know Hunters. Knew one 53' yacht which would lie flat in anything over 15 knts and not get up until the wind stopped!! True. Keel issue of course.
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Old 05-07-2011, 23:56   #27
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Re: Heeling and new sailor

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Besides, for those who don't own a sailboat or have family/friends who do to teach you how to sail, how do you ever get to rent one without getting a keelboat cert?
Good point. I was in the UK a few years back and went to rent a sailing dingy (a Wayfarer). They would not rent it to me. No RYA qualification.

I sailed that class of sailing dingy across to France, and from the East Coast beyond the Solent. (A few hundred miles). Now: not insurable to sail it on a lake!

The world is full of credentials. We also need to get experience. So good on you for focusing on getting both.
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:07   #28
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Re: Heeling and New Sailor

I'm currently based in UK, and did rent all sorts of dinghies before getting a small boat myself, and i wasn't asked for RYA papers ever. I guess it depends on where you go, and how you approach and present yourself

I remember first time they asked me "Have you ever sailed before?" - I said "Yeah, no worries", and they agreed to rent it to me. However my only sailing experience was online games and windsurfing board I did have 10 capsizes first day - but i am so much better at heeling now )
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Old 06-07-2011, 14:55   #29
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Re: Heeling and New Sailor

Main point was to agree with Navy PT, and support his direction and aspirations.

FTR, several Kiwis chartering in Europe have bumped into inflexible requirements. The mob I talked to (nicely) was worried about insurance. Period. Would hire on basic RYA creds, and didn't care about sailing (40+ years) or rescue (lifeboat) experience. (Nor, incidentally, were they interested in NZ Boatmaster quals. Wrong colour of paperwork!)

Now, let's keep this thread on topic.
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Old 08-07-2011, 20:07   #30
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Re: Heeling and New Sailor

Does a Hunter 180 have a traveller? A cunningham? An outhaul? Can it be reefed? Aside from easing the main sheet, there are other ways to take heel out of a boat. Ask the instructor who certified you.
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