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Old 25-10-2008, 08:09   #1
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heaving to vs lying ahull

i sail a pearson323 cruiser out of point breeze lake ontario and this year i spent a considerable amount of time learning the art of heaving to .
on lake ontario conditions will show themselves from lite and variable winds to extreme heavy weather. the waves from calm to ihave seen 18 foot waves recorded on an offshore buoy in the height of a storm . i want to be able to deal with all conditions .my cruser with a shoal draft keel of 4500 pounds of a 13000pound yacht heaves to very well and its remarkable how it comforts even the wildest of conditions ,as i have been
working on solo sailing ive found heaving to allows a respite away from the helm .in my readings lying a hull is also considered a heavy weather tactic,
although i feel un comfortable putting my beam to the closely spaced and breaking waves in the range of 3-5 foot waves.
just finished reading " voyage for madmen" an account of the first golden globe race in 1968 and peter nichols states the demise of two of the entrants who were lying a hull and were knocked over and capsized whereas others heaved to in similiar conditions and experienced no bad effects or sustained damage.
i am looking for feedback from sailors that have used these tactics and would appreciate thei thoughts on the pros and cons of each...?
BonnElaine 323 Lake Ontario
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Old 25-10-2008, 08:30   #2
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Monohull, - heave to - read Adlard Coles "Heavy Weather Cruising" It was a frequent reponse to really bad weather.


Multihull - I could never get my catalac to heave to or to lie ahull, without moving sideways at several knots, even under bare poles in strong winds.
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Old 25-10-2008, 08:57   #3
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I had a Pearson 10M sloop which was similar in some ways to your 323. I had a fin keel, however, and could not get her to heave to at all. She'd sail all over the place. The new boat has a long "cruising" keel, kind of like the Valiants. I'm hoping she'll heave to allright.

A question for you. Did you bring your sea anchor back amidships very far?
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Old 25-10-2008, 09:50   #4
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First boat was 30' fin keel and skeg rudder would heave to up to 25 kts with headsail aback and tiller slightly down but ratio of sail area (head to main) was critical. Second boat was full keel (cutaway forefoot) and transom rudder and she would heave to quite easily regardless of sail balance (within reason).

My readings would suggest that lying a hull has lost favour and that makes sense to me.
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Old 26-10-2008, 00:11   #5
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As above, anywhere there is a chance of decent waves I think lying ahull dangerous. I've been rolled doing it, never more than a bit of water on deck while hove to.

In a multihull I would run with a drogue. (I know there are those who would disagree but I have yet to be convinced).
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Old 26-10-2008, 06:08   #6
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Check out Lin and Larry Pardey's books and or dvd on storm tactics. Heaving to is a learned skill you need to practice.
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Old 31-10-2008, 18:16   #7
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lying ahull

question about lying ahull they say you take all sail down button down the hatches and go below and let the boat find its own way . havent read whether that means holding the helm in a neutral pos or just letting it go??/ seem to methat you should hold thehelm inorder to keep from losing steerage which would be very bad . ive read that where some would also drag a drouge to keep from lying directly abeem to the waves . is this still considered lying ahull?//?
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Old 31-10-2008, 18:41   #8
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Every boat I have owned(maybe 15-20) have been different in there ability to deal with bad weather or just to hove to for a brake. I think you have to experiment with each boat a see what it likes to do then encourage it to do whats safe and comfortable. The trick is to do the testing before you really need it and be prepared for plan two and three if #1 does not do it.
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Old 01-11-2008, 00:04   #9
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1. Each yacht has a different underwater profile and above water windage. Therefore it will interact with the sea and wind in a different way than with dissimilar designs. Generalizations are hard to make because there are so many different designs

2. Your strategy may be significantly different depending on whether you are in breaking or non-breaking seas. You may be able to get away with lying ahull in non-breaking seas, whereas breaking seas may destroy your yacht.

3. Rounded bilge boats tend to roll easily from gunnel to gunnel when lying ahull in a storm. Flat bottom boats have a tendency to pound, but they have high initial stability that may make them more stable when lying ahull in non-breaking seas.

4. In a monohull yacht, the roll moment inertia of the mast tends to keep a boat from rolling in a sea way. Take a broomstick and hold it by one of its ends and try to swing it back and forth from its end. It's hard to move it back and forth because of the roll moment of inertia in the broomstick. The same is true of the mast in your yacht.

If your yacht has a mast still standing, the roll moment of inertia of the mast will tend to keep the boat from rolling from gunnel to gunnel. With a heavy mast in the air, you may be able to lie ahull even though it is unwise. If you mast is gone, then there is a drastic reduction in the roll moment of inertia in your yacht, and if you lie ahull, you will experience viscious rolling and may even be rolled 360.

5. A catamaran behaves much differently than a monohull in a storm. The roll moment of inertia of the mast contributes little to the stability of the yacht. The beam of a catamaran keeps it from rolling. Therefore a catmaran may lie ahull in non-breaking seas, whereas the same seas could drive you wild on a monohull without a mast.

Overall, it's a bad idea to lie ahull. You are asking for trouble, and using a drogue or parachute will give you much more control over your situation.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:41   #10
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The severity of an offshore storm will also dictate the prudent methodology.

-In extreme conditions of +90 knot winds,
-Confused and Breaking seas sweeping the deck because of opposing current

Your primary concern is to get everybody safely secured down below.

So before you get to that state, trying out a drogue, warps or parachute in different configurations to observe the best profile under bare poles is what you need to have tested beforehand.

Not experienced those extreme conditions with my Stargazer, but because of her large rudder and high buoyant stern I would let her run downwind under bare poles towing something substantial behind her.

I believe “Head to Sea” would put too much pressure on her heavy rudder.
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:27   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonnelaine View Post
havent read whether that means holding the helm in a neutral pos or just letting it go??/ seem to methat you should hold thehelm inorder to keep from losing steerage which would be very bad . ive read that where some would also drag a drouge to keep from lying directly abeem to the waves . is this still considered lying ahull?//?
The rudder must be secured. Tied down, preferably. If left to bang it'll cause all sorts of problems.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:38   #12
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I rough seas, breaking over the cabin, my Passport 47 would not stay head up when heaving to, even with just the reefed main and no headsail. More like lying ahull! The boat would move at 1-2 knots, so wasnt dead in the water. Water pressure trumps wind pressure. I'm begging to think the only boats that will truly heave to in those conditions are genuine full keel boats.
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Old 01-11-2008, 19:32   #13
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I have a full keeled boat similar to a BCC and would heave to under storm sails using a parachute with a bridle as the Pardeys suggest. If I had the searoom, I would deploy the parachute well before the wind reached force 8.

I would then go below, deploy my manual bilge pump, and try to eat something. I never pray on an empty stomach.
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:11   #14
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I have a full keeled boat similar to a BCC and would heave to under storm sails using a parachute with a bridle as the Pardeys suggest. If I had the searoom, I would deploy the parachute well before the wind reached force 8.

I would then go below, deploy my manual bilge pump, and try to eat something. I never pray on an empty stomach.
Currmudgeon im thinking you would deploy the parachute off of the bow rather than the stern ?? i just got into the Pardys web site and will be learning from that soon. i dont own a parachute but i do have a canvas drouge which i will be practicing with this coming season to see how it reacts with my 323 .thanks for your reply am getting a lot of good advice from good sailors from all over the world
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:21   #15
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Yes, off the bow. It's a paratech sea anchor, not a drogue. I may invest in a series drogue in the unlikely event that I do a long crossing.

Has anyone just used a warp off the stern to slow the boat down? It seems to me that a long line with the ends tied to the port and starboard aft cleats would have a decent slowing effect, particularly with something heavy tied to it.
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