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Old 10-02-2014, 15:41   #16
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

i've read the storm tactics book by the Pardy's, (good reading), And other descriptions of heaving to as well as the forum responses. I haven't seen an mention of heaving to in a ketch or other two masted boat. Anyone have a technique for those boats? I don't plan to be offshore but it would be a nice way ,as suggested, to wait for dawn or a favorable tide before entering an inlet or anchorage.
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Old 10-02-2014, 23:57   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southpw11
This is great, thanks.

re: heaving-to. I actually tried the heave-to tactic described above (jib backed, main luffing, tiller providing opposing force) on a newish Hunter 33' and I could not get it to a stable position. It would either, 1) pick up too much speed and tack or 2) fall off too much and end up in some sort of broad reach. It felt nearly impossible to reach a proper balance between rudder/jib. For that reason I thought I was doing it wrong. Anyway, sounds like a balance can be reached using this tactic...perhaps I just need more practice.

re: storm tactics. I am planning on making a voyage across lake michigan (ie. Racine, Wisconson to the Michigan side), and although I figure I can plan ahead weather-wise for such a short trip, I would like to have a good idea of how to deal with a storm before I try this sort of semi 'open water' sailing. I figure once I know how to plan for, and survive a storm, I will be less concerned about taking on bigger, open-water sailing challenges.
Another important thing about storm tactics - the subject of understanding weather and doing decent passage planning goes hand in glove. If you are reasonably aware of weather and are not venturing more than a day or two from land, you will never need any storm tactics. That is because conditions get to be actually dangerous such as to require tactics only after big winds have been acting in the ocean over a large area for a certain amount of time. And that means a major storm, and major storms don't appear out of nowhere. So there is non reason to ever be caught out in survival conditions unless you are far from land - too far to get into port from the time that such conditions can be forecast.

To be specific - wind by itself will never create a really dangerous situation offshore (as long as you have searoom). What is dangerous are large breaking waves which result from a lot of energy being transferred to the water over a long period of time and large area (fetch).

Violent squalls such as may appear suddenly especially in summer are not dangerous as long as you have sea room and don't get caught with too much sail up. That us because a storm which appears suddenly also disappears quickly and can't create a dangerous sea state. Just take the mainsail down, leave out a little bit of genoa for stability, put on your foul weather gear, and run off down wind until the squall passes. Enjoy the ride. If all you're doing is crossing lake Michigan, that's really all you need to know. That and, don't head out before being sure that no major storm is forecast.

I would say the first thing to learn about is not storm tactics per se, but weather. You will learn what kind of weather systems are capable producing dangerous conditions, how to recognize them, and how to p,an your passages to eliminate the risk of being caught in one. This is fundamental and much more important than storm tactics, which you will not need until you start crossing large stretches of open ocean - not indeed Lake Michigan.
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Old 11-02-2014, 00:36   #18
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

+1

What they all said. Best thing to do is practice, practice, practice.

Every year at the start of the season, we take a "practice day" Sail out and practice everything, heaving to, reefing down, (setting the emergency rudder (how many of you know where it is?). Then we take a couple of hours practicing harbor maneuvers - just to get everything refreshed.

Having spent the day "working", we reward ourselves with a really good dinner and a good bottle (well sometimes two) of wine.

Spending a day practicing is really worthwhile and actually is fun (and a worthwhile investment in being a good sea(wo)man.

By the way - both my wife and I practice at all stations - we can both sail the boat single-handed if necessary
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Old 11-02-2014, 05:44   #19
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Be careful about sticking to rules and systems. such as start close hauled and tack the jib, my boat heaves to easily and effectively, and does its best without the Headsail. Not having a go at any poster here. just reinforcing comments about each boat being different.
...
Yes, every boat is different and may require different techniques. This is especially so for some multihulls and high performance monos. For example, heaving to on a high performance trimaran requires different technique than a full keeled traditional monohull.

The instructions I posted were originally written in the context of teaching sailing aboard sloop rigged monohuls in the 25-50' range. The OP's diagram was of a monohull so I assumed that context. Aboard vessels of this class these procedures will work for the vast majority of boats with some tweaking to account for differences.

Ironically, I wrote these instructions as part of a larger document to help instructor candidates prepare for IQCs (Instructor Qualification Clinics). The fact that this was needed underscores the point that a surprising number of experienced sailors do not know this basic skill.
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Old 11-02-2014, 06:02   #20
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

The latest super light mono hull designs with skinny keels and super high free board generally do not do well hove to. In the lighter winds that people train in (under 25 knots) almost anything will hove to in some shape or form but once you get into the higher 30's and up its a different game. Actually in storm force winds its not a wise choice as these boats will fore reach and even tack. Best to run off (active) or use a drogue (passive)
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Old 11-02-2014, 06:07   #21
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

Here's a video showing how to heave to:
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Old 11-02-2014, 06:55   #22
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

Well done video. Duncan is an excellent instructor. Really funny too...too bad they didn't have him ham it up a bit. ;-)


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Old 11-02-2014, 09:03   #23
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

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Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
I've had 90 Knots over the deck, sitting on a para-anchor...
C'mon Mark, don't be a tease! That has to be something of a record. I'll bring the beers if you tell the story.
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Old 11-02-2014, 09:27   #24
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

I'm in MarkJ's corner
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Old 11-02-2014, 09:55   #25
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

heaving too in newer boats takes practice to get the perfect setup. my little boat needs very little headsail up to stay hove to. chuck and laura on their little vega 27 have lived aboard and sailed countless miles and talk about their experience with storm tactics in this video.
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Old 11-02-2014, 22:53   #26
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

Speaking as a guy who has never been out of Puget Sound, and who has never been out in winds above 25 knots, I did research.

The problem with who to listen to never goes away on the internet.

My criteria for foul weather tactics was, therefore, experience. Specifically, I wanted to hear from someone who had been in a survival storm and weathered it.

Unfortunately, a lot of the folks who came through such a storm don't write books, and those that post in these forums about it can't be distinguished from the posers and the Stolen Valor types. Furthermore, if you follow the wrong set of instructions, you disappear over the horizon, no one hears from you again, and there is no one to dispute incorrect advice.

The instructors I learned from clearly did not understand heaving to, either the methods or the purpose. It reminded me of folks who had never seen a spare tire talking about changing a flat and repeating what they had been taught by a person who had never seen a spare tire.

But the Pardeys met my criteria, and wrote a book on the subject.

I intend to follow their advice.
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Old 11-02-2014, 23:23   #27
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

Jammer Six, that is what I went through before I went offshore the first time as well. I listened to all the crap, mostly by those who have not actually done it, and decided to try the Pardy's method. It has not let me down in over 40,000 miles. Only been on the parachute a couple of times. Seen 90 Knot gusts, sustained windspeeds over 70, and seas up to around 14m. I'd use their method again anytime! The critical factor is to stop the fore-reaching, and to sit behind the parachute. For me, on my boat, I MUST use a bridle, and it takes a bit of adjustment to get it right.
I would consider a series drogue, if I wanted to go the way the wind was going, especially if I had sufficient crew to steer. But as I'm normally singlehanded or double handed, I'd be reluctant to trust the AP in a really severe storm.
Sounds like you have thought about it (as have I) quite a bit. Now go with your gut!!
Good luck ,get out there. Unless you plan on high latitudes, you'll most likely never need real storm tactics!
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:09   #28
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Only been on the parachute a couple of times. Seen 90 Knot gusts, sustained windspeeds over 70, and seas up to around 14m. I'd use their method again anytime! The critical factor is to stop the fore-reaching, and to sit behind the parachute. For me, on my boat, I MUST use a bridle, and it takes a bit of adjustment to get it right.
Wow, you guys who sail the Tasman Sea and NZ waters have to be pretty tough. 90 knots!

We don't get that kind of weather here too much, but F10 is a pretty regular occurrence. We've had a number of F12's these last few months -- it's been very stormy -- and in fact we've got a F12 blowing right now in the Western Approaches:

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Old 12-02-2014, 05:27   #29
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

Worst I've weathered was 65 knots sustained for 24 hours with gust to 85. Seas about 25' (crew claims much higher, but review of NOAA data confirmed they were over dramatizing a bit).

Tactics: Initially we ran with it (10+ knots under storm jib alone!) to get more sea room and get out of a busy traffic area and then we hove to and rode it out (under sail only). Comfortable enough below to sleep and make coffee.
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:53   #30
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Re: Heaving to / Other Storm tactics

and in fact we've got a F12 blowing right now in the Western Approaches

Yep ......tell me about it ! Tis a bit breezey
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