heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Curios what you consider technically incorrect in my response?

>>Typically you would use a bit less sail area than what you would fly sailing in the same same conditions to heave-to.

This depends a lot of the boat. Our shannon hove to with a lot less sail area than you would use when sailing in those same conditions. Hawk actually could heave to with more sail area than you would use sailing (. . . . but we normally forereached rather than hove to on Hawk)

>>So, if furling gets just your sheets against the shrouds then that's not so bad. Chafe is only going to become an issue in that situation if you are hove-to in heavy conditions for a long time.

Just think this is bad practice anytime/ all the time. Why not take the 'easy moments' to practice exactly what you are going to do in the 'hard moments'. Then you get used to it and find any possible snags and problems. It's not hard (on most boats) to clip on an extra sheet (or less desirable but possible if the clew is too high . . . . bring the windward sheet around) and lead it inside the stays.

>>In that case some chafe protection would be a good idea. Something that you can readily slip over the stay and secure...like a split piece of hose, or fabric tube, with small lines run thru it for securing.

This might be hard to do once the sail has been partially furled (might be high up/difficult to reach/difficult to place correctly/difficult to secure), and once it is loaded up, and the hose might not stay in place, and it might well chafe thru itself. It just seems like a poor bandaid when there is a better proper relatively easy solution (a second inside sheet).

IMHO (And not picking on anyone specifically) Seamanship = knowing what to do and doing it immediately and properly and not taking shortcuts, even when you are tired and/or don't think it 'is necessary'.

[jwcolby54]

I just watched this last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SAXRH42Df0

[dana-tenacity]

Originally Posted by cabo_sailor

I may be totally wrong, probably am, but on my Cabo cutter I don't find any headsail needed to heave to. I flatten the main, however much I have up, and center it. A little bit of rudder and I'm stopped.

Granted I've not used this method in more than 30 kt. In that instance I spent 2-3 hrs and according to the chart plotter I drifted about 0.5 mm.

Maybe because I'm full keel and a true cutter with the mast a bit aft of a sloop?

Rich


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I've done the same on a number of fin and skeg boats with no problems, only started fore reaching above about 65kn. (pull the traveller to weather helps).

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

I've done the same on a number of fin and skeg boats with no problems, only started fore reaching above about 65kn. (pull the traveller to weather helps).

Really . . . You have been multiple times in hurricane force winds? Those conditions are pretty rare.

And your multiple fin keel boats did not fore reach in 50kts . . . . Odd.

[jackdale]

If you are heaving-to for lunch, to get a fix, etc.. you will not be hove-to for long. A full main and genoa are not an issue.

If you heave-to in heavy weather for an extended period, you have a triple reefed main or trysail and a serious furled genoa or storm jib. The latter foresails will not chafe against the speaders. The sheets can be led inboard of the shrouds.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

>>So, if furling gets just your sheets against the shrouds then that's not so bad. Chafe is only going to become an issue in that situation if you are hove-to in heavy conditions for a long time.

Just think this is bad practice anytime/ all the time. Why not take the 'easy moments' to practice exactly what you are going to do in the 'hard moments'. Then you get used to it and find any possible snags and problems. It's not hard (on most boats) to clip on an extra sheet (or less desirable but possible if the clew is too high . . . . bring the windward sheet around) and lead it inside the stays.

....

This might be hard to do once the sail has been partially furled (might be high up/difficult to reach/difficult to place correctly/difficult to secure), and once it is loaded up, and the hose might not stay in place, and it might well chafe thru itself. It just seems like a poor bandaid when there is a better proper relatively easy solution (a second inside sheet).

Yet another situation where the advantage of having a perforated aluminum toerail at your disposal can be HUGE...

On some boats such as mine, the angle at which you're able to back the headsail can really be critical... When using a staysail with the leads situated well inboard, I find the sheeting angle can still be a bit too narrow, and I want the sail to be backed just a bit more...

By creating a sort of reverse barber-haul using a snatch block or similar fixed to the weather rail, you can dial in pretty much whatever degree of backwinding you desire, or possibly eliminate any chafing of the sheet against the shrouds entirely... And of course, this is really the only means of backwinding a self-tacking jib, as well...

Perforated toerails are one of the greatest inventions known to mankind, I don't know how sailors go off cruising without them...

;-)

[belizesailor]

Yes, perforated toe rails are great...really puzzles me when I see non-perforated toe rails...why?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

>>Typically you would use a bit less sail area than what you would fly sailing in the same same conditions to heave-to.

This depends a lot of the boat. Our shannon hove to with a lot less sail area than you would use when sailing in those same conditions. Hawk actually could heave to with more sail area than you would use sailing (. . . . but we normally forereached rather than hove to on Hawk)

>>So, if furling gets just your sheets against the shrouds then that's not so bad. Chafe is only going to become an issue in that situation if you are hove-to in heavy conditions for a long time.

Just think this is bad practice anytime/ all the time. Why not take the 'easy moments' to practice exactly what you are going to do in the 'hard moments'. Then you get used to it and find any possible snags and problems. It's not hard (on most boats) to clip on an extra sheet (or less desirable but possible if the clew is too high . . . . bring the windward sheet around) and lead it inside the stays.

>>In that case some chafe protection would be a good idea. Something that you can readily slip over the stay and secure...like a split piece of hose, or fabric tube, with small lines run thru it for securing.

This might be hard to do once the sail has been partially furled (might be high up/difficult to reach/difficult to place correctly/difficult to secure), and once it is loaded up, and the hose might not stay in place, and it might well chafe thru itself. It just seems like a poor bandaid when there is a better proper relatively easy solution (a second inside sheet).

IMHO (And not picking on anyone specifically) Seamanship = knowing what to do and doing it immediately and properly and not taking shortcuts, even when you are tired and/or don't think it 'is necessary'.

Good points I think.

I certainly agree that it is best to always follow the same procedures.

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, KK.

C: Ideally (if practical), you should re-run the sheet inside or between the shrouds for a fair lead and avoid chafe altogether.

Or, chaffing gear as belizesailor suggests.

Yachts have differences so what works for one might be "wrong" for another.
I don't make a practice of heaving to as in backing the jib. I have done it from time to time and it works well. My boat has a practically non overlapping jib, swept back spreaders, and a jib sheet track forward of the upper shrouds. It is a fractional rig, and has a very short (fore and aft) bulb keel.
I simply put the helm over and don't release the jib. The the main goes across and the boat sits where it is and nothing rubs on anything. Of course sitting still in the water is not possible as tide, wind and the boat are all moving relatively. Einstein had a theory about that.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

I don't make a practice of heaving to as in backing the jib.
[...]

I simply put the helm over and don't release the jib.
[...]

...and that's what constitutes "backing the jib".

[model 10]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Yes, perforated toe rails are great...really puzzles me when I see non-perforated toe rails...why?

It's not easy to retrofit an old boat with solid teak toe rails to perforated toe rails. Consider yourself lucky to have them but don't be too puzzled by those who don't.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Guy

It's not easy to retrofit an old boat with solid teak toe rails to perforated toe rails. Consider yourself lucky to have them but don't be too puzzled by those who don't.

Puzzled by the original design, not the current owner.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Puzzled by the original design, not the current owner.

Oh, designers like Phillip Rhodes and Mr.Perry etc. etc. were just not up to speed. I wish they had been.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Each boat is different, but under mail alone you are probably forereaching.

But, used to sail Corsair Tris which would heave-to under main alone and not forereach.

I agree. Fore reaching. A few years ago we picked up a copy of Pardey's "Storm Tactics" at their free lecture. Best lecture and tactics discussion ever. I strongly recommend this little booklet. All of the tactics are well discussed & explained along with the type of boat on which it works best. Virtues and use of drogues and sea anchors are also discussed. The Cabo with full keel as well as ours will forereach well. Fin keel boats - not so easy. Heaving to necessarily requires a smaller jib, probably your storm jib. This is probably what you will already have up if its blowing that hard. With the shorter sail, only the sheets will lie on the rig. Depending on the rig & boat, this loading may be very undesirable - or OK. The method you choose may also depend on how much leeway you can afford to yield and where the storm is and what way its going. You can forereach away from the storm and end the misery sooner.

[estarzinger]

Y

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Heaving to necessarily requires a smaller jib, probably your storm jib.

Just to be careful . . . . Not all boats require a jib/any jib at all to heave to. Our Shannon ketch, just for example, hove to perfectly with just the mizzen sail (no foresail) up, vanged a bit off the centerline.

Our experience is that boats that are not particularly close winded are rather easier to heave to on . . . . Because they have a much broader groove in which they will be stable and stalled. A close winded boat will start sailing if a wave or gust knocks it off even a little bit, making it harder to get it stable. Boats with further aft masts ("real" cutters and ketches) also tend to be easier.

I agree that fore reaching is often a nice technique to move you relatively safely in a favorable direction (away from worst conditions and/or toward your destination). There are even more options and techniques for for-reaching than there are for heaving to