Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-08-2015, 16:36   #16
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,744
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Curios what you consider technically incorrect in my response?
>>Typically you would use a bit less sail area than what you would fly sailing in the same same conditions to heave-to.

This depends a lot of the boat. Our shannon hove to with a lot less sail area than you would use when sailing in those same conditions. Hawk actually could heave to with more sail area than you would use sailing (. . . . but we normally forereached rather than hove to on Hawk)

>>So, if furling gets just your sheets against the shrouds then that's not so bad. Chafe is only going to become an issue in that situation if you are hove-to in heavy conditions for a long time.

Just think this is bad practice anytime/ all the time. Why not take the 'easy moments' to practice exactly what you are going to do in the 'hard moments'. Then you get used to it and find any possible snags and problems. It's not hard (on most boats) to clip on an extra sheet (or less desirable but possible if the clew is too high . . . . bring the windward sheet around) and lead it inside the stays.

>>In that case some chafe protection would be a good idea. Something that you can readily slip over the stay and secure...like a split piece of hose, or fabric tube, with small lines run thru it for securing.

This might be hard to do once the sail has been partially furled (might be high up/difficult to reach/difficult to place correctly/difficult to secure), and once it is loaded up, and the hose might not stay in place, and it might well chafe thru itself. It just seems like a poor bandaid when there is a better proper relatively easy solution (a second inside sheet).

IMHO (And not picking on anyone specifically) Seamanship = knowing what to do and doing it immediately and properly and not taking shortcuts, even when you are tired and/or don't think it 'is necessary'.
__________________

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2015, 17:30   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NC
Boat: 1974 Morgan Out Island 33
Posts: 552
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

I just watched this last night.

__________________

__________________
Order tends to Chaos. On the ocean it happens twice as fast.
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2015, 17:54   #18
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Whangaparaoa,NZ
Boat: 63 ft John Spencer Schooner
Posts: 956
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabo_sailor View Post
I may be totally wrong, probably am, but on my Cabo cutter I don't find any headsail needed to heave to. I flatten the main, however much I have up, and center it. A little bit of rudder and I'm stopped.

Granted I've not used this method in more than 30 kt. In that instance I spent 2-3 hrs and according to the chart plotter I drifted about 0.5 mm.

Maybe because I'm full keel and a true cutter with the mast a bit aft of a sloop?

Rich


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I've done the same on a number of fin and skeg boats with no problems, only started fore reaching above about 65kn. (pull the traveller to weather helps).
__________________

dana-tenacity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2015, 18:20   #19
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,744
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by dana-tenacity View Post
I've done the same on a number of fin and skeg boats with no problems, only started fore reaching above about 65kn. (pull the traveller to weather helps).
Really . . . You have been multiple times in hurricane force winds? Those conditions are pretty rare.

And your multiple fin keel boats did not fore reach in 50kts . . . . Odd.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2015, 20:22   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

If you are heaving-to for lunch, to get a fix, etc.. you will not be hove-to for long. A full main and genoa are not an issue.

If you heave-to in heavy weather for an extended period, you have a triple reefed main or trysail and a serious furled genoa or storm jib. The latter foresails will not chafe against the speaders. The sheets can be led inboard of the shrouds.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2015, 21:19   #21
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post

>>So, if furling gets just your sheets against the shrouds then that's not so bad. Chafe is only going to become an issue in that situation if you are hove-to in heavy conditions for a long time.

Just think this is bad practice anytime/ all the time. Why not take the 'easy moments' to practice exactly what you are going to do in the 'hard moments'. Then you get used to it and find any possible snags and problems. It's not hard (on most boats) to clip on an extra sheet (or less desirable but possible if the clew is too high . . . . bring the windward sheet around) and lead it inside the stays.

....

This might be hard to do once the sail has been partially furled (might be high up/difficult to reach/difficult to place correctly/difficult to secure), and once it is loaded up, and the hose might not stay in place, and it might well chafe thru itself. It just seems like a poor bandaid when there is a better proper relatively easy solution (a second inside sheet).
Yet another situation where the advantage of having a perforated aluminum toerail at your disposal can be HUGE...

On some boats such as mine, the angle at which you're able to back the headsail can really be critical... When using a staysail with the leads situated well inboard, I find the sheeting angle can still be a bit too narrow, and I want the sail to be backed just a bit more...

By creating a sort of reverse barber-haul using a snatch block or similar fixed to the weather rail, you can dial in pretty much whatever degree of backwinding you desire, or possibly eliminate any chafing of the sheet against the shrouds entirely... And of course, this is really the only means of backwinding a self-tacking jib, as well...

Perforated toerails are one of the greatest inventions known to mankind, I don't know how sailors go off cruising without them...

;-)
__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 07:10   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,948
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Yes, perforated toe rails are great...really puzzles me when I see non-perforated toe rails...why?
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 07:13   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,948
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
>>Typically you would use a bit less sail area than what you would fly sailing in the same same conditions to heave-to.

This depends a lot of the boat. Our shannon hove to with a lot less sail area than you would use when sailing in those same conditions. Hawk actually could heave to with more sail area than you would use sailing (. . . . but we normally forereached rather than hove to on Hawk)

>>So, if furling gets just your sheets against the shrouds then that's not so bad. Chafe is only going to become an issue in that situation if you are hove-to in heavy conditions for a long time.

Just think this is bad practice anytime/ all the time. Why not take the 'easy moments' to practice exactly what you are going to do in the 'hard moments'. Then you get used to it and find any possible snags and problems. It's not hard (on most boats) to clip on an extra sheet (or less desirable but possible if the clew is too high . . . . bring the windward sheet around) and lead it inside the stays.

>>In that case some chafe protection would be a good idea. Something that you can readily slip over the stay and secure...like a split piece of hose, or fabric tube, with small lines run thru it for securing.

This might be hard to do once the sail has been partially furled (might be high up/difficult to reach/difficult to place correctly/difficult to secure), and once it is loaded up, and the hose might not stay in place, and it might well chafe thru itself. It just seems like a poor bandaid when there is a better proper relatively easy solution (a second inside sheet).

IMHO (And not picking on anyone specifically) Seamanship = knowing what to do and doing it immediately and properly and not taking shortcuts, even when you are tired and/or don't think it 'is necessary'.
Good points I think.

I certainly agree that it is best to always follow the same procedures.
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 07:46   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 811
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, KK.

C: Ideally (if practical), you should re-run the sheet inside or between the shrouds for a fair lead and avoid chafe altogether.

Or, chaffing gear as belizesailor suggests.
Yachts have differences so what works for one might be "wrong" for another.
I don't make a practice of heaving to as in backing the jib. I have done it from time to time and it works well. My boat has a practically non overlapping jib, swept back spreaders, and a jib sheet track forward of the upper shrouds. It is a fractional rig, and has a very short (fore and aft) bulb keel.
I simply put the helm over and don't release the jib. The the main goes across and the boat sits where it is and nothing rubs on anything. Of course sitting still in the water is not possible as tide, wind and the boat are all moving relatively. Einstein had a theory about that.
__________________
GrahamHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 17:28   #25
Registered User
 
hzcruiser's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Boat: Roberts 45
Posts: 127
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamHO View Post

I don't make a practice of heaving to as in backing the jib.
[...]

I simply put the helm over and don't release the jib.
[...]
...and that's what constitutes "backing the jib".
__________________
Fair winds,
heinz
hzcruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 17:55   #26
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Yes, perforated toe rails are great...really puzzles me when I see non-perforated toe rails...why?
It's not easy to retrofit an old boat with solid teak toe rails to perforated toe rails. Consider yourself lucky to have them but don't be too puzzled by those who don't.
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 18:35   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,948
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
It's not easy to retrofit an old boat with solid teak toe rails to perforated toe rails. Consider yourself lucky to have them but don't be too puzzled by those who don't.
Puzzled by the original design, not the current owner.
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 18:54   #28
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Puzzled by the original design, not the current owner.
Oh, designers like Phillip Rhodes and Mr.Perry etc. etc. were just not up to speed. I wish they had been.
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 19:17   #29
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Each boat is different, but under mail alone you are probably forereaching.

But, used to sail Corsair Tris which would heave-to under main alone and not forereach.
I agree. Fore reaching. A few years ago we picked up a copy of Pardey's "Storm Tactics" at their free lecture. Best lecture and tactics discussion ever. I strongly recommend this little booklet. All of the tactics are well discussed & explained along with the type of boat on which it works best. Virtues and use of drogues and sea anchors are also discussed. The Cabo with full keel as well as ours will forereach well. Fin keel boats - not so easy. Heaving to necessarily requires a smaller jib, probably your storm jib. This is probably what you will already have up if its blowing that hard. With the shorter sail, only the sheets will lie on the rig. Depending on the rig & boat, this loading may be very undesirable - or OK. The method you choose may also depend on how much leeway you can afford to yield and where the storm is and what way its going. You can forereach away from the storm and end the misery sooner.
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2015, 20:31   #30
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,744
Re: heaving to, how to ? a question of chafe

Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Heaving to necessarily requires a smaller jib, probably your storm jib.
Just to be careful . . . . Not all boats require a jib/any jib at all to heave to. Our Shannon ketch, just for example, hove to perfectly with just the mizzen sail (no foresail) up, vanged a bit off the centerline.

Our experience is that boats that are not particularly close winded are rather easier to heave to on . . . . Because they have a much broader groove in which they will be stable and stalled. A close winded boat will start sailing if a wave or gust knocks it off even a little bit, making it harder to get it stable. Boats with further aft masts ("real" cutters and ketches) also tend to be easier.

I agree that fore reaching is often a nice technique to move you relatively safely in a favorable direction (away from worst conditions and/or toward your destination). There are even more options and techniques for for-reaching than there are for heaving to
__________________

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chafe Guard JusDreaming Anchoring & Mooring 5 22-09-2009 10:40
"Lazyjacks" ,and chafe. highseas Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 17 27-09-2008 19:27
Chafe on the tramp netting... schoonerdog Multihull Sailboats 12 01-07-2008 18:52
Chafe Protection???...Any Ideas?? Rangiroo Seamanship & Boat Handling 12 11-10-2007 19:03
Genoa halyard chafe NoTies Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 4 29-12-2006 07:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.