Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-01-2011, 07:15   #1
Registered User
 
PamlicoTraveler's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Depends
Boat: SB 43' Cutter
Posts: 679
Images: 13
Heaving-to

I have been reading Lin and Larry Pardey's "Heavy Weather Sailing." They are proponents of heaving to early and often as the slick keeps the waves from breaking, and the avoids the pounding of riding straight into the wind.

In heavier winds they ride to a sea anchor and with a trysail, and lash the tiller to steer 20-30 degrees off the wind. They say they use their anchor rode for the sea anchor rather than carry a separate rode for the sea anchor.

This makes sense, but we have 100 feet of chain to start the rode. Has anyone used chain to ride to a sea anchor? I am wondering if the chain is too heavy and will sink the anchor making it difficult to retrieve. I haven't been able to find where they address that in the book. Anyone with experience on this?
__________________

__________________
PamlicoTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 07:25   #2
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

A sea anchor rode should have some weight to it to keep it below the surface for it to work effectively... but I think 100ft would be over doing it for sure... 25 -30ft would be ample.... but in your case this would mean a dedicated rode... or... dump at least 50ft of chain...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 08:49   #3
Registered User
 
PamlicoTraveler's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Depends
Boat: SB 43' Cutter
Posts: 679
Images: 13
Yeah..I'm trying to avoid the dedicated Rode. I guess I could reverse the rode before an offshore trip, but that makes it more of an ordeal-disconnect the chain, pull the 100 feet of chain on deck to get to the rope etc... In a storm it would be a real pain.
__________________
The next best thing to playing and winning
is playing and losing ...
[I]
PamlicoTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 09:07   #4
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
If you are serious about survuval at sea here is a link that will steer you in the correct direction: Series Drogue: Ocean survival

Quality makers of sea anchors or drouges have specific requirements regarding the type, size and length of the line used and how it should be deployed. I would wager that using an anchor rode in not reccomended.
__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 09:30   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger View Post
If you are serious about survuval at sea here is a link that will steer you in the correct direction: Series Drogue: Ocean survival

Quality makers of sea anchors or drouges have specific requirements regarding the type, size and length of the line used and how it should be deployed. I would wager that using an anchor rode in not reccomended.
I mean no offense, but there is nothing wrong with using a nice stretchy nylon anchor rode. In fact, that is exactly what Lynn and Larry do recommend. That way, one piece of equipment serves two different roles, something that becomes vital on small cruisers with limited stowage.

To the OP; Do you not have a second anchor rode, as well as a second anchor? If not, I highly recommend that you acquire same. Far more boats are wrecked dragging anchor than are lost in heavy weather. Your second anchor rode might have a shorter length of chain, as mine does, and then it can double for this purpose.

There is a lot of controversy regarding this topic, and little acquired knowledge among the cruising public. I happily include myself in this group. The best way to block a blow is to not be there. However, if I do encounter a storm, I'm heaving to, which Eider, (a B32) does nicely. If she starts to forereach, I'll deploy a chute off her forward quarter, using my spare rode and a snatch block for control, and see how I do. I have only practiced this in twenty knots so far, so clearly I am an amateur at this. From my reading on the subject, I have no intention of running from a severe blow. However, as with most of us, I have not dealt with truly serious weather, no more than 40 knots or so, so all of this is hypothetical. May we all have pleasant weather.
__________________
Mainebristol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 09:31   #6
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Considering your yacht I would do some significant research on this whole issue. cburger is sending you in the right direction IMO. Sea anchors have some serious down side issues. The series drogues are somewhat more bullet proof from an engineering point of view. Ours including the mushroom anchor fits in a small 2.5 x 1.5 x1.5 foot approx. duffle. We so far have not had to use it.
__________________
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 09:35   #7
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler View Post
They are proponents of heaving to

Is your Shannon 43 a sloop or ketch. Our Shannon 37 ketch hove to with just the mizzen up absolutely perfectly in almost any condition. We never ever felt the need for a para-anchor on that boat.

The Shannon also runs under bare poles really nicely with just a long warp over the stern. We used our kedge anchor rode with 15; on chain on it for that.

If you are going cruising you really REALLY should have a 'kedge rode' (say 200-300' of rope with some short chain) for three reasons: #1 its very useful sometimes to be able to set a second anchor, and #2 it is possible that you could lose your main anchor rode sometimes, and then #3 a long extra rope is useful at other times - for a shore tie, as a stern warp or a rode for a para-anchor, etc. I can't imagine going offshore with a spare long line/rode.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 10:03   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ft.myers,fl
Boat: rhodes,seafarer,28
Posts: 137
You need to unshackle your anchor anyway, just unshackle it from the end of the chain rather than at the shank of the anchor.
__________________
capt.bobfm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 10:20   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Having used a drogue (Delta-type, not series) in combat and only having read the Pardeys years later, I'd be inclined next time to try their approach - gained with years of experience and sea miles.

In moderate-to-large ocean swells (say 10-20') I might opt again to run with the storm, trailing a drogue ...

But, much bigger than that and I think you're bound to eventually get pooped, possibly triggering all sorts of nastiness.

I'm intrigued by the series drogue, but not enough (yet) to bet my life on it.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 10:54   #10
Marine Service Provider
 
wadda's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sydney
Boat: Allied Mistress 39'
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
<snip>

I'm intrigued by the series drogue, but not enough (yet) to bet my life on it.
We used a Jordan Series Drogue last year. GPS said we were doing 5.6 knots with just the storm staysail and bloody uncomfortable.

The wind was picking up, so we tossed out the series drogue, dropped the sail and spent the next two days in relative comfort at just over 2 knots.

I would not hesitate using the Jordan Series Drogue again, but prefer to avoid using it.
__________________
wadda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 11:09   #11
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
A drogue or series drogue send you downwind when in a hurrican or cyclone in the dangerous quadrant you want to be STOPPED, or going upwind.

I like the Parachute Anchor
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 11:13   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
A drogue or series drogue send you downwind when in a hurrican or cyclone in the dangerous quadrant you want to be STOPPED, or going upwind.

I like the Parachute Anchor
True. In my case I did not then have a sea anchor. Like I said, I think I'd do differently next time - and I hope there isn't a next time.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 12:48   #13
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
I have read a number of accounts of high shock loads on the parachute anchor snapping the rode or tearing out the cleats. I guess this problem could be mitigated by a smaller chute. Accounts of the series drogue describe more of a soft rubber band feeling. The series drogue design doesn't allow high impulse loading.

The series drogue also doesn't allow high loads on the rudder that are also problem with the chutes. The hull can slide backwards down the face of the wave given slack gained when the rode stretches and then pulls the hull forward. Add some yaw effects and the forces become large. The backward slide can jam or bend the rudder system components.

In summary one should have more than one arrow in the quiver. It is recommended that different strategies be employed depending on the sea state. The series drogues seem to be recommended for extreme conditions.
__________________
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 13:21   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 774
This issue has been posted here as many times as there are solutions. Just do a thread search to verify. First rule; don't use a chute if you've never tried one, it can kill you. Second rule; use a chute to heave to or nothing, do NOT use a drogue, it can kill you. Rule three; refer to rule one.
The setups vary with every breath of air and every drop of water in the bilge, kind of like balancing on the razors edge. It's like riding a bike and is all about balance. If you've never ridden a bike don't use one to get your pregnant wife to the hospital.
__________________

Seahunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 14:03   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I have read a number of accounts of high shock loads on the parachute anchor snapping the rode or tearing out the cleats. I guess this problem could be mitigated by a smaller chute. Accounts of the series drogue describe more of a soft rubber band feeling. The series drogue design doesn't allow high impulse loading.

The series drogue also doesn't allow high loads on the rudder that are also problem with the chutes. The hull can slide backwards down the face of the wave given slack gained when the rode stretches and then pulls the hull forward. Add some yaw effects and the forces become large. The backward slide can jam or bend the rudder system components.

In summary one should have more than one arrow in the quiver. It is recommended that different strategies be employed depending on the sea state. The series drogues seem to be recommended for extreme conditions.
Drag Device Database book points out for several cases that too small a parachute and you just wind up beam on to the seas just as if you were lieing ahull, so you might as well not have a chute anchor out at all. It says you minimize loads by having the right amount of rode out so you are in the same part of a wave as the chute is in. You still need to connect to something solid on the boat. Dashew believes that in breaking wave conditions a chute anchor will have too great of a load and will snap the rode or tear anything no matter how strong out of your deck, so he believes that when conditions deteriorate to those conditions you have to use a different storm technique.

The only time I've been caught out in gusts to 50 kts offshore I was part of a delivery crew on a racing boat, we just kept sailing, both when it was upwind and down. 14 days Oahu to Neah Bay.

John
__________________

__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Challenge: Heaving-to with Self-Tacking Jib jackdale Challenges 21 08-08-2012 22:21
Heaving-to mario f Seamanship & Boat Handling 21 14-04-2010 06:46
'Heaving To' in a Trimaran drew23 Multihull Sailboats 10 05-10-2009 18:29
heaving to vs lying ahull bonnelaine Seamanship & Boat Handling 14 02-11-2008 07:21
Heaving Fro? dghall General Sailing Forum 35 01-05-2007 23:13



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.