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Old 06-01-2011, 14:13   #16
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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I have read a number of accounts of high shock loads on the parachute anchor snapping the rode or tearing out the cleats.
.
Never heard of that.

Check this out. He actually measured loads.

http://www.katiekat.net/Cruise/KatieKatParaAnch.html

http://www.katiekat.net/Cruise/Katie...chorIndex.html

And his comment here

http://cruisingclub.seawindcats.com/...2010-06-12.htm
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Old 06-01-2011, 15:07   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Never heard of that.

Check this out. He actually measured loads.

KatieKat ParaAnchoring

KatieKat ParaAnchor Index

And his comment here

Heavy Weather Handling :: Orca Forum
Read the last link. To summarize one author believes chutes are a disaster in heavy weather.
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Old 06-01-2011, 15:14   #18
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Read the last link. To summarize one author believes chutes are a disaster in heavy weather.

Heh.

What kind of anchor you got?
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Old 06-01-2011, 15:15   #19
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No two storms are alike. Different conditions require different tactics.
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Old 06-01-2011, 15:41   #20
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There are alot of strong opinions about the subject. I am sure a Jordan Series drogue could be used successfully, but the appeal of heaving to with a sea anchor if necessary is that the slick from the boat keeps waves from breaking. Lin and Larry have all the credibility in the world in my book. They apparently use it often as a way of getting rest in storms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainebristol
To the OP; Do you not have a second anchor rode, as well as a second anchor? If not, I highly recommend that you acquire same. Far more boats are wrecked dragging anchor than are lost in heavy weather.
Yes we do have a second anchor. It actually has 60 feet of chain and 200 feet of 5/8 line. I think the 5/8 line would work fine with our Fiorentino ParaAnchor. I guess my main question was whether the chain would be a problem for the sea anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger
Is your Shannon 43 a sloop or ketch. Our Shannon 37 ketch hove to with just the mizzen up absolutely perfectly in almost any condition. We never ever felt the need for a para-anchor on that boat.
Hey Evans. It;s a cutter rig. We would probably use a triple reefed main or the staysail to heave to. We don't have a storm trysail with a separate track, which I think would be nice. Do you use one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior
I have read a number of accounts of high shock loads on the parachute anchor snapping the rode or tearing out the cleats.
Maybe so, but I would think it would be no more stress than being at anchor. And with a drogue you could have stress on the cleat on the stern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahunter
First rule; don't use a chute if you've never tried one, it can kill you.
By that rule it would never have been tried. Seriously, I am going to practice it sometime so that I'm not overwhelmed when/if the time comes to use it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 16:08   #21
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I can think of several reasons why I wouldn't want my anchor rode to do double duty as the link to any type of drouge.

Heaving to and riding to a sea anchor are two completely different storm tactics. I have heard of the suposed benefit of the slick created when a full keel boats heaves to, never personally experinced it and tend to doubt the overall effect. There are even stories of old timers hanging cans of oil over the side to increase the slick.

The Series drouge is a whole other gorilla designed to save the boat in braking confused seas. Not a place to be hove to. The Jordan Series drouge was designed by an aircraft engineer and the device subjected to significant tank testing as well as real world experience. They claim a boat has never been lost while using the equipment. Mr. Jordan makes no money from the device and developed the gear to save sailors lives The link I posted covers all of this as well as the US Coast Guards opinion of the device.

If you have taken the time to read the Pardy's self promoting opinions and you are seriously considering going off shore with your Shannon the Jordan Link is full of technical data that deserves a thorough read.
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Old 06-01-2011, 16:37   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler View Post

Yes we do have a second anchor. It actually has 60 feet of chain and 200 feet of 5/8 line. I think the 5/8 line would work fine with our Fiorentino ParaAnchor. I guess my main question was whether the chain would be a problem for the sea anchor.

Hmmm . . . I think 5/8" and am sure 200' are on the small marginal size for a 'survival storm para-anchor experience' . . . but it would be pretty good for a drogue in gale conditions. If I were you, I would replace this second anchor rode with 300' of 3/4" and you would be perfect for many serious applications.

The 60' of chain would not be a problem during the storm. The load on the para-anchor will easily keep that weight near the surface. But when the wind drops it will sink the para anchor and make recovery much more difficult.


Hey Evans. It;s a cutter rig. We would probably use a triple reefed main or the staysail to heave to. We don't have a storm trysail with a separate track, which I think would be nice. Do you use one?

Yes, on Hawk, we have a trysail on a separate track and use that to heave-to/forereach in the worst weather. We do that mostly because it saves the mainsail from a lot of wear and tear, but when hove-to it is also useful to have a sail that is slightly less efficient (the trysail) which gives a larger 'sweet spot' for a stable hove - to position.

So, I think the separate trysail track is useful, but it is not "necessary" . . . a deep reefed mainsail in good condition will do the job.


Maybe so, but I would think it would be no more stress than being at anchor. And with a drogue you could have stress on the cleat on the stern.

Para-anchors do have greater loads than being at anchor - because you can be dealing with open ocean +40' breaking waves hammering the bow, the kind of waves you (hopefully) never get at anchor.

By that rule it would never have been tried. Seriously, I am going to practice it sometime so that I'm not overwhelmed when/if the time comes to use it.
Yes, that's important, practice whatever you plan to do. Otherwise it will almost certainly fubar when you do it for real.
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Old 06-01-2011, 17:25   #23
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I thought this was an interesting read:

http://www.multihull.com.au/site/www.../parachute.pdf

Cheers
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Old 06-01-2011, 17:36   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger
Heaving to and riding to a sea anchor are two completely different storm tactics.
Not really. The idea is that if you heave to with a sea anchor to avoid sailing out of your slick. The sails would keep the boat from heading directly into the wind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger
The Series drouge is a whole other gorilla designed to save the boat in braking confused seas. Not a place to be hove to.
I don't think that's a consensus. I don't want breaking waves over my stern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger
If you have taken the time to read the Pardy's self promoting opinions and you are seriously considering going off shore with your Shannon the Jordan Link is full of technical data that deserves a thorough read.
I try to read a lot of things and hope not to become opinionated. You sound like your mind is made up. I don't think that the Pardey's are selling sea anchors,.. I read Evans and Beth too. I want to hear from people that have tried various approaches. Hopefully I will be prepared if I find myself in dangerous seas. So far I have just used basic methods. Have had the anchor for years and never have used it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 17:39   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger
So, I think the separate trysail track is useful, but it is not "necessary"
That's in the budget planning now....
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Old 06-01-2011, 17:49   #26
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Never used one... never owned one... never will.. unless it comes with the boat. Tactics to date...
Run under bare poles..
Heave to jib and main, just main...
Lay ahull...

But as a total aside to those who favour sea anchors....
I'd have thought the gradual increase of force on anchor/drouge that anchorplait would have would be kinder to motion and especially the drouge than the sharp jerk normal rope would have.........
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Old 06-01-2011, 18:36   #27
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But as a total aside to those who favour sea anchors....
I'd have thought the gradual increase of force on anchor/drouge that anchorplait would have would be kinder to motion and especially the drouge than the sharp jerk normal rope would have.........[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, and this was the point that I was trying to make in my first post, most manufacturers of quality drouges, para anchors, etc have very specific criteria regarding what type of tackle and fittings they want used with their product. I happen to have a Gale Rider system, never had to use it, hope I never do.

I would suggest that due to the inertia, momentum issues of a boat being tossed about in heavy seas that the loading of lines, warps etc could be much higher than a similar craft lying to an anchor rode. That is why when using a rig like a Jordan Drouge special purpose built attachment points for the tackle should be in place, not your typical cleat.

I have read many companies reccomendations for rigging these types of devices and no where have I ever seen a reccomendation to use the anchor rode. However if it was the only thing you had have at it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 18:46   #28
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Never used one... never owned one... never will.. unless it comes with the boat. Tactics to date...
Run under bare poles..
Heave to jib and main, just main...
Lay ahull...
A five gallon bucket works good too.
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Old 06-01-2011, 18:54   #29
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahunter
First rule; don't use a chute if you've never tried one, it can kill you.

By that rule it would never have been tried. Seriously, I am going to practice it sometime so that I'm not overwhelmed when/if the time comes to use it.
Perhaps stating that one should practice first before heaving to with a chute, before the real thing, might have been better. But I think most people understood what I meant. Just for the record, make sure it's blowing between 25 - 30KN before practicing or you might need to get wet untangling the rode from your shaft.
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Old 06-01-2011, 18:59   #30
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Quote:
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A five gallon bucket works good too.
Never used one of those either....
But my styles been fine so far.... if I drown I might think about the Drouge again...
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