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Old 17-09-2016, 11:35   #106
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

According to my English teacher, this is called a "phrasal verb".

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Old 17-09-2016, 13:14   #107
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

Just like "break up" as in, "my boat broke up while I was hove-to."
Or "I wanted to break up so I gave her the heave ho! and once she was gone she was hove-ho" ...wait, that might not be correct...
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Old 17-09-2016, 13:56   #108
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Just like "break up" as in, "my boat broke up while I was hove-to."
Or "I wanted to break up so I gave her the heave ho! and once she was gone she was hove-ho" ...wait, that might not be correct...
Hmm..no, hove-hos ŕre those yummy swirly chocolate and cream cakes.....
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Old 17-09-2016, 17:43   #109
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

Having consulted several sources I find that 'hove' means simply 'to stop'...so you could be hove-to while lying ahull under bare poles....

As it says in 'The Sailor's Word Book' which itself dates from 1867....

It occurs in Grafton's Chronicle where the mayor and aldermen of London, in 1256, understanding that Henry III was coming to Westminster from Windsor , went to Knightsbridge 'and hoved there to salute the king'

You can , it seems , also 'hove' on a horse......
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Old 17-09-2016, 18:06   #110
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post

You can , it seems , also 'hove' on a horse......

Only if the horse heaves to first.


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Old 17-09-2016, 18:24   #111
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Having consulted several sources I find that 'hove' means simply 'to stop'...so you could be hove-to while lying ahull under bare poles....

As it says in 'The Sailor's Word Book' which itself dates from 1867....

It occurs in Grafton's Chronicle where the mayor and aldermen of London, in 1256, understanding that Henry III was coming to Westminster from Windsor , went to Knightsbridge 'andhoved there to salute the king'

You can , it seems , also 'hove' on a horse......
You are talking about two different words which are both homonyms and homographs. (i.e. they sound and are spelt the same, but they have different derivations and meanings)

1. hove ‎(third-person singular simple present hoves, present participle hoving, simple past and past participle hoved)

(obsolete, intransitive) To remain suspended in air, water etc.; to float, to hover.  [quotations ▼]
(obsolete, intransitive) To wait, linger.  [quotations ▼]
(obsolete, intransitive) To move on or by.
(intransitive, now chiefly dialectal) To remain; delay.
(intransitive, now chiefly dialectal) To remain stationary (usually on horseback).


Is a different word to:

2. hove- simple past and past participle of the verb "heave".
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Old 17-09-2016, 18:55   #112
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Having consulted several sources I find that 'hove' means simply 'to stop'...so you could be hove-to while lying ahull under bare poles....

As it says in 'The Sailor's Word Book' which itself dates from 1867....

It occurs in Grafton's Chronicle where the mayor and aldermen of London, in 1256, understanding that Henry III was coming to Westminster from Windsor , went to Knightsbridge 'and hoved there to salute the king'

You can , it seems , also 'hove' on a horse......
"It behooves you to hove your horse"
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Old 17-09-2016, 19:37   #113
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
You are talking about two different words which are both homonyms and homographs. (i.e. they sound and are spelt the same, but they have different derivations and meanings)

1. hove ‎(third-person singular simple present hoves, present participle hoving, simple past and past participle hoved)

(obsolete, intransitive) To remain suspended in air, water etc.; to float, to hover.  [quotations ▼]
(obsolete, intransitive) To wait, linger.  [quotations ▼]
(obsolete, intransitive) To move on or by.
(intransitive, now chiefly dialectal) To remain; delay.
(intransitive, now chiefly dialectal) To remain stationary (usually on horseback).


Is a different word to:

2. hove- simple past and past participle of the verb "heave".
All good stuff but I'm afraid you have made a bold and false assumption ... that hove has come to us from heave... it has not.

Using the Shorter Oxford hard copy here ... it gives quite a few meanings of the verb 'heave'... none of which involves stopping your ship.

'Heave to' .. to stop your ship... comes from 'hove', not the other way around.

And 'hove to' or 'heave to' does not necessarily involve sails..... consider the case of the naval ship coming upon a suspected blockade runner... what does she order the suspected blockade runner to do?

Yep... 'Heave to!' .... which simply means to stop.... which is pretty much what the Shorter Oxford says.... 'wait, linger, stay, or remain'

You have approached this problem from the wrong end of the horse...
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Old 17-09-2016, 20:36   #114
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

I vote with StuM: two or more words that English speakers have confused and continue to confuse.

For hove, see: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hove


For heave, see: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/heave


Wiktionary, compared to any dead tree version of the Shorter Oxford, is more up-to-date with contemporary etymological research. And avoids some of the errors historically embedded in the SOD and OED while doing a more through job of tracing etymologies through, in this case, proto-Germanic and proto-Indo-European.
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Old 17-09-2016, 21:06   #115
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

I think one should remember that the verbs are not "heave" and "hove" but "heave to."
Without the "to" it's a different ball game.
"to" is no longer a preposition in this case but part of a verb phrase, like "heave down" or "heave out." The English habit of appropriating prepositions for verb phrases always makes me crack up.
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Old 17-09-2016, 22:08   #116
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Hove to, as in we were hove too, we are hove to..

heave to as in we are about to heave to, when do you heave to..

Heaving to, as in we are heaving to now..

Its a weird expression.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

A participle thing.
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Old 18-09-2016, 03:43   #117
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

Ahh, All this grammer stuff is way out of my league, I am pretty pleased when spellcheck gets my spelling near enough to something readable. Numbers are more my thing, but to the seaman in me, Pings theory sounds right.

On the container ships we often used to sit 'Hove to' in severe weather by slowing right down and putting the wind a point or so off either the port or stb bow, depending on the sea patterns, forecast and destination. Interestingly the deep sea fishermen called this 'Dodging' and I kind of like this term better.
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Old 18-09-2016, 04:15   #118
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
For all you metricheads, "seas around 9metres" = roughy 30 ft.

Wave capsize ratio is +/-.6 which means a 22 ft boat at .6 = breaking waves of > 13 ft will capsize your boat. So heaving to in greater conditions might not be effective. You won't capsize with wind. It's the bloody waves.
yes 70 kts = 22 ft. with reefed main hell iv been in 54 steel cutter 34 tons in 55 kts no sail and wheel lashed and down below for 3 days,Rum helped
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Old 18-09-2016, 05:36   #119
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

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^^ Ha, indeed! My english language theory isnt up to analyzing these ?verbs?
Strong verbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_strong_verb
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Old 18-09-2016, 05:47   #120
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Re: Heave /Hove to -what are the limits?

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A participle thing.
No, it's not just participles. A strong verb which changes tense by changing the stem vowel, rather than adding a suffix.

Sing sang sung

Ring rang rung

Swim swam swum

Give gave gave

Sh*t shat shat [really]

Grow grew grew



As opposed to weak verbs, where the stem doesn't change, but you add -ed, -t, etc:

Love loved loved

Laugh laughed laughed

Burn burned burned (or burnt)



So as someone above wrote, it's

Heave, hove, hove.

I heave-to.

I will heave-to in a minute.

I hove-to yesterday.

I have hove-to every day this week so far.
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