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Old 17-11-2014, 17:17   #76
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

According to the logic of "they broke the law so they should face the consequences" police brutality should never be questioned as long as victims were breaking the law. For some the world is so simplistically black and white and completely void of complexity.


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Old 17-11-2014, 17:24   #77
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

This kind of thing reminds me of a phrase I heard from my dad growing up, "you can't shoot a moose from the lodge". If these "activists" feel so strongly that they want to go out and risk bodily injury to garner publicity then I applaud them.

Obviously they're not going to stop the drilling. The net effect is about zero, but hey they believe in something and they're putting their money where their mouth is.

If they hurt someone else I'd certainly feel differently. I don't feel bad for the guy with a broken bone. He signed up for a risky and stupid adventure and that's just what he got. And you know those hairy legged green peace girls are beating a path to his door.

By discussing it at all we're all giving them exactly what they want. Better move next time would be to completely ignore it.


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Old 17-11-2014, 17:39   #78
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
She did have a legal right to be on that bus and sit on any unoccupied seat. Even if the state authorities while disregarding US Constitution thought otherwise.

Don't think you can say the same thing about GP and the oil rig.

If anything it is the oil rig people who are the "Rosa Parks" in this situation. And btw I'm definitely not a fan of big oil and their ilk. But do hope everyone follows the same rules when registering a political protest.
Actually at the time, I don't believe she did. It was the Civil rights act of 1964 or was it 63 (old memory), that made it illegal to discriminate in public accommodations on the basis of race , religion, national origin, etc. Before that it was perfectly legal for a state or city to require that persons for whatever reason be required to use a certain seat or even be banned from using the accommodation at all.

I clearly agree that Greenpeace was in the wrong trying to stop the drilling at sea and interfering with the drilling rig. This is especially true if they were trying to board the rig. Seeing that they were unarmed they should have been arrested and charged with whatever crime they were committing under Spanish law.

What happened was a direct result of using military personnel for a police force. I'll relate a story about two guys that used to work for me. One was into mixed martial arts and the other an ex US Army Ranger. While discussing his MMA stuff one day the first guy asked the ranger if he received any martial arts training while in the military to which the ranger responded that he had, without elaborating. The MMA guy asked him if he would like to spar with him some time, to which the ranger answered no. The MMA guy wouldn't let it go and eventually the MMA guy finally asked him why not. The rangers response was that the only techniques he had been taught would kill, he didn't know any techniques that were not meant to be fatal. I don't think the MMA guy ever brought the subject up again.
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Old 17-11-2014, 17:44   #79
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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I know that there is no such word as implaud, with or without the capital, in Australia either. I'm betting on implore.

Coops.
To quote U.S Grant when questioned about his horrible spelling. "A person who can think of only one way to spell a word has a very limited mind."

I'm not sure what he was trying to spell, but he obviously does not have a limited mind.
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Old 17-11-2014, 17:48   #80
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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To quote U.S Grant when questioned about his horrible spelling. "A person who can think of only one way to spell a word has a very limited mind."

I'm not sure what he was trying to spell, but he obviously does not have a limited mind.
I agree with that hole heart adiddly.

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Old 17-11-2014, 17:49   #81
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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I know that there is no such word as implaud, with or without the capital, in Australia either. I'm betting on implore.

Coops.
Ok, now that you two moderators have had some fun picking on my bad spelling, how about you get back to the subject at hand.
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Old 17-11-2014, 18:51   #82
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

All the commercial vessels involved have a security protocol that they are obliged to follow by the force of law. Most of which require the vessel to be locked down and the crew to go to the security safety area. In this instance would have effectively shut down the vessels and cause them to activate their security alarms which go back to the flag nation of the vessel and at that point, the case of the US flagged vessel, they dust off the Navy Seals and when those men arrive there are some serious consequences for those who violate the security of those vessels. Most countries would have arrested the mother ship and taken them in tow and arrested the crew members and placed them in jail. Or they could have been sunk on scene. The protesters approaching the other ships with RIBs would be considered an act of aggression. I find it ironic that the protesters are using the same kind of vessels that are used in support of the drilling operation, which have huge main engines and generators, and thrusters that uses massive amounts of fuel. As has been pointed out previously, if the protesters were true believers they would be sailing on wooden ships, with standard canvas sails and manila lines. I am all for the responsible development of the resources, and there are some places that they should not drill for oil, at all. There is also a responsible way to redress your concerns that does not involve endangering anyone's life or limb. Those that were injured, knew going in there was a risk, it is on their heads.
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Old 17-11-2014, 18:53   #83
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

What is the subject, precisely? And will that be as you see it, or they see it, or????????
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Old 17-11-2014, 19:03   #84
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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Actually at the time, I don't believe she did. It was the Civil rights act of 1964 or was it 63 (old memory), that made it illegal to discriminate in public accommodations on the basis of race , religion, national origin, etc. Before that it was perfectly legal for a state or city to require that persons for whatever reason be required to use a certain seat or even be banned from using the accommodation at all.

I clearly agree that Greenpeace was in the wrong trying to stop the drilling at sea and interfering with the drilling rig. This is especially true if they were trying to board the rig. Seeing that they were unarmed they should have been arrested and charged with whatever crime they were committing under Spanish law.

What happened was a direct result of using military personnel for a police force. I'll relate a story about two guys that used to work for me. One was into mixed martial arts and the other an ex US Army Ranger. While discussing his MMA stuff one day the first guy asked the ranger if he received any martial arts training while in the military to which the ranger responded that he had, without elaborating. The MMA guy asked him if he would like to spar with him some time, to which the ranger answered no. The MMA guy wouldn't let it go and eventually the MMA guy finally asked him why not. The rangers response was that the only techniques he had been taught would kill, he didn't know any techniques that were not meant to be fatal. I don't think the MMA guy ever brought the subject up again.
I believe you're incorrect on this. US Constitution applies to the states through 14th Amendment (enacted in 1868):

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

By denying Rosa Parks her lawful and constitutional right to use public transportation in the same way any white person had a right to use it the state was in violation of Art 14. As simple as that.

Basically stated - any of the subsequent Civil Rights legislation is redundant and was passed to molify certain constituencies and to get more votes for those politicians voting "yes" on it.

Now we can certainly have a discussion as to why some states still as late as 1950s refused to abide by the US Constitution but that would be a whole other matter.
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Old 17-11-2014, 19:07   #85
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Peaceful Greenpeace boats attacked by reckless Spanish police. I'm sure there will be those who will somehow blame the protesters?

Video: Activist hospitalised after boats rammed during peaceful protest against oil drilling | Greenpeace International
Why is it greenpeace seem to think community laws dont seem to apply to them.
Best known for their attempts at Graffiti I reckon. As skippers and seamanship I have not seen worse.
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Old 17-11-2014, 19:12   #86
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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All the commercial vessels involved have a security protocol that they are obliged to follow by the force of law. Most of which require the vessel to be locked down and the crew to go to the security safety area. In this instance would have effectively shut down the vessels and cause them to activate their security alarms which go back to the flag nation of the vessel and at that point, the case of the US flagged vessel, they dust off the Navy Seals and when those men arrive there are some serious consequences for those who violate the security of those vessels. Most countries would have arrested the mother ship and taken them in tow and arrested the crew members and placed them in jail. Or they could have been sunk on scene. The protesters approaching the other ships with RIBs would be considered an act of aggression. I find it ironic that the protesters are using the same kind of vessels that are used in support of the drilling operation, which have huge main engines and generators, and thrusters that uses massive amounts of fuel. As has been pointed out previously, if the protesters were true believers they would be sailing on wooden ships, with standard canvas sails and manila lines. I am all for the responsible development of the resources, and there are some places that they should not drill for oil, at all. There is also a responsible way to redress your concerns that does not involve endangering anyone's life or limb. Those that were injured, knew going in there was a risk, it is on their heads.
Greenpeace were recently in Licata Sicily for a few days. They allowed people to pay to have a look on board....except they were not allowed to ask about or visit the huge diesel engines down below. We were told they sail the ship. Yeah right. Any sailor would realise this steel ship aint going to sail with some cosmetic sales stuck to the ship. Oh and all night we yachties were annoyed by the thumping diesel generator running 24/7
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Old 17-11-2014, 19:14   #87
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

This has nothing to do with Rosa Parks. It's about some self centered individuals thinking that they are above the law and attempting to interfere with a lawful operation.

They are a bunch of idiots and deserve whatever happens to them.

Anyone who thinks they had a right to do what they did is pretty dumb in my book.
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Old 17-11-2014, 19:33   #88
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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They are a bunch of idiots and deserve whatever happens to them.

Anyone who thinks they had a right to do what they did is pretty dumb in my book.
I don't think anyone has said here that they had the right to do what they did. Maybe I missed it. They were breaking the law and endangering property, and maybe arguably the safety of the other boat's crew. I have no problem with them being arrested and their boat confiscated. They may be idiots and law breakers. But going from that to "deserve whatever happens to them" is simplifying the issue a bit too much. I think the deserve consequences (being arrested) but I definitely don't think they deserve death, which could have easily happened. You may argue that I'm overstating the risk of the tactics used by the Armada, but if the video had shown the GP boats ramming another inflatable the way the Armada rammed the GP boats you would be calling the the video an example of attempted murder.
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Old 17-11-2014, 19:39   #89
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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Anyone who thinks they had a right to do what they did is pretty dumb in my book.

They absolutely can break the law if they want to. If they do, and it looks like they did here, then they suffer the consequences.

Someone may decide that they would rather suffer the consequences than abide by the rules. That's their choice. It's the choice Rosa Parks made and anyone else if free to do the same.

Just don't cry about losing the fight. They knew they weren't going to actually stop any drilling. They made the decision that any consequence they may suffer would be a worthwhile price to pay relative to the publicity it would generate.

I personally don't agree so I'll quit commenting. Perhaps I never should have started. This is the right reaction for next time.

http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...eationist.html


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Old 17-11-2014, 19:42   #90
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Re: Greenpeace tenders attacked by reckless police

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No photos of grappling hooks, but from the Greenpeace video, it appears that this fellow was geared up for something, likely boarding the drilling vessel.

Governments take vessel security very seriously these days, viz., the vigorously enforced exclusion zones around US Navy ships by heavily armed RIBs. I don't fault the Spanish for doing the same, though it's too bad someone was injured. I can't help but think that the Greenpeace PR folks like to provoke such incidents just so they can splash them around the Internet.
.
To state it simply. Greenpeace are always untruthful. Lets go back to talking about interesting boat stuff.
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