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Old 17-12-2015, 12:10   #46
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

I'm far from an expert.

For MY boat once it gets 20ish, I better put in a reef. It's rail-down funtime if I don't, but we go slower. Catalina 30's are really fat boats and too much heel kills speed.

I almost always have the traveler above centerline when closehauled. Then enough sheet to loosen up the leech to get all tell-tales flowing. 15-20ish I'm rolling in some twist by further easing the mainsheet and moving the traveler more windward.

For my boat I reduce main area first. If not, weather helm is insane. I've also got a new main on the boat and a 30 year old gennie. So the main may be a tad bit better shaped.
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:25   #47
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

For what it's worth.... I have a Parker 27 which I entered for the annual Round the Island Race ( Isle of Wight) here in the Solent earlier this year. Wins were up and down between 12~20 knots and the Parker needs to take in first reef at 17 it's apparent. Ended up reefing and unreeling four times ( twice in each upwind leg at the beginning and end of the race) each time I reeled which I can do in 30 seconds without losing any significant drive, the boat sailed more upright and my VMG increased or at least was no worse than before reefing. Finished in top 50% of class and overall on handicap and that with a rookie crew and white sails only despite declaring a Spinnacker and cruising chute, it certainly made a huge improvement in performance to reef at the appropriate time, even in a race.
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:34   #48
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canyonbat View Post
That is apparent wind angle and bearing. With our shoal draft and taking into account leeway, we are probably lucky to be getting 60!
60 degrees off the wind makes more sense but if you're sailing 31 degrees off apparent that would be like 20 degrees off true so I'm still confused. Then again, maybe I don't know how VMG to Wind is calculated.

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Old 17-12-2015, 14:36   #49
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

TRAVELER ALL THE WAY OUT TO LEEWARD !

To windward in very light airs in some conditions.
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Old 17-12-2015, 14:52   #50
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
That's what I thought. When racing we usually adjust the cunningham or foreguy. If someone used the term downhaul, no one would know what they were talking about. But it occurred to me that in some circles foreguys and cunninghams are referred to as types of downhauls - either that or it's an entirely different piece of equipment I am unfamiliar with, which is always a possibility..
Sailing terms are fun, for me if you used the word foreguy I would start looking at the spinnaker pole . On our boat we use the word downhaul and cunningham interchangeably. I sailed with a guy once who could head up in both directions
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Old 17-12-2015, 15:17   #51
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepbluetj View Post
I'm far from an expert.

For MY boat once it gets 20ish, I better put in a reef. It's rail-down funtime if I don't, but we go slower. Catalina 30's are really fat boats and too much heel kills speed.

I almost always have the traveler above centerline when closehauled. Then enough sheet to loosen up the leech to get all tell-tales flowing. 15-20ish I'm rolling in some twist by further easing the mainsheet and moving the traveler more windward.

For my boat I reduce main area first. If not, weather helm is insane. I've also got a new main on the boat and a 30 year old gennie. So the main may be a tad bit better shaped.
We do much the same, although we keep our mainsail FLAT until be bear off and then loosen the mainsheet. We also use the vang with the mainsheet fully in for further flattening. We have and use a cunningham. Our outhaul is stiff, so essentially it's fixed but we'd yank it tight if we could --- just another thing on my list!
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Old 17-12-2015, 16:03   #52
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
Sailing to windward, what's that?
Sometimes there is another island just a few miles away, it's a nice day, nice wind. What the heck?
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Old 17-12-2015, 16:13   #53
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

more adjustable back stay on and take a reef, you are sailing on your ear. deck awash is too much wetted surface. you ARE going slow
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Old 17-12-2015, 16:36   #54
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
Don't understand everything tight and then moving the traveler hard to windward. That generally overpowers the main and produces more heel. The only time I would consider moving the traveler to windward in heavier air is when you also ease the main and twist off the top of the sail.

Also, as others have suggested, with your "downhaul" on hard, tighten the backstay to move the draft back a little and narrow the angle of entry on the luff of the main.
nope. traveler to windward and ease the main sheet twists the sail spilling air at the top while powering at the bottom. same effect as reefing the main. downhaul on hard moves the draft forward, not aft. tightening the backstay does move the draft aft.
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Old 17-12-2015, 16:43   #55
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
TRAVELER ALL THE WAY OUT TO LEEWARD !

To windward in very light airs in some conditions.
no no no. traveler to weather and ease the main sheet twists the sail dumping air from the top reducing heal and weather helm while driving the lower part of the sail for pointing ability. works just like reefing the main.
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Old 17-12-2015, 16:49   #56
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
60 degrees off the wind makes more sense but if you're sailing 31 degrees off apparent that would be like 20 degrees off true so I'm still confused. Then again, maybe I don't know how VMG to Wind is calculated.

just the opposite, actually. 31 degrees of apparent wind is more like 40 degrees off true wind. the forward speed of the boat moves the apparent wind forward, the amount depending on wind speed and boat speed.
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Old 17-12-2015, 17:06   #57
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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Originally Posted by jrbogie View Post
nope. traveler to windward and ease the main sheet twists the sail spilling air at the top while powering at the bottom. same effect as reefing the main. downhaul on hard moves the draft forward, not aft. tightening the backstay does move the draft aft.
Not to be difficult but isn't that what I said? Only move traveler to windward if you are also going to ease the main sheet to twist off the sail. I was responding to the OP having the traveler to windward and the mainsheet tight at the same time.
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Old 17-12-2015, 17:11   #58
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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just the opposite, actually. 31 degrees of apparent wind is more like 40 degrees off true wind. the forward speed of the boat moves the apparent wind forward, the amount depending on wind speed and boat speed.

Absolutely correct. I was having a senior moment there. Thinking one thing and typing another. Happens all the time I'm afraid.
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Old 17-12-2015, 17:18   #59
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
Not to be difficult but isn't that what I said? Only move traveler to windward if you are also going to ease the main sheet to twist off the sail. I was responding to the OP having the traveler to windward and the mainsheet tight at the same time.
you're right. that is what you said. my bad. i'm so spring loaded to telling folks here that traveler to weather and ease the mainsheet if you hope to keep pointing it's become automatic. sorry.
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Old 17-12-2015, 17:29   #60
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Re: Going hard to wind, main sail trim.

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Originally Posted by jeepbluetj View Post
I'm far from an expert.

For my boat I reduce main area first. If not, weather helm is insane. I've also got a new main on the boat and a 30 year old gennie. So the main may be a tad bit better shaped.
even more reason to always shorten fore to aft. why shorten a well shaped mainsail when you can reef the poorly shaped jennie? an old jennie will not depower, reduce draft, like it did when new so if you keep her full while you shorten the main you're headed for a round up.
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