Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-02-2010, 13:25   #16
sitting on the dock of the bay

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,513
Images: 6
Send a message via Yahoo to gonesail
you tried to take a tayana into matanzas inlet ??
__________________

__________________
sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most.
gonesail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 09:18   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
you tried to take a tayana into matanzas inlet ??

Wow..........
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GoogleEarth_Image.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	72.3 KB
ID:	13204  
__________________

__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 09:21   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Leewards heading to Grenada for summer 2012
Boat: Tayana 42
Posts: 102
I think we would have had a bunch of other problems if we tried that We were headed south on the ICW and got stuck just inside of the inlet.
__________________
msulc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 09:34   #19
Marine Service Provider
 
AnchorageGuy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever the boat is!
Boat: Marine Trader 34DC
Posts: 4,618
There are so many questions that a simple, the tow driver did not know what he was doing, answer just may not fit. First, the construction of you boat is such that there is almost certainly no damage to your boat other than the loss of some bottom paint. As to the other boats that went around and outside the channel, what was there draft? and what was yours? Where did they leave the channel compared to where you did? The towboats always use a working channel and not 16 and I am sure he had to communicate with you on this channel at some point. I would also be willing to bet that he has towed off more than your boat at some point in this area. In addition, once you are aground, there is a very good chance that no matter what direction you get towed you are going to hit more shallow spots. That is unless the towboat pulls you dead astern of where you came into the shoal, and he will not do that because you will damage the rudder. You are off the shoal, under way and no damage to the boat. In all of my years of traveling the ICW, I would consider that a good grounding. WG
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, ICW Hampton Roads To Key West, The Gulf Coast, The Bahamas

The Trawler Beach House
Voyages Of Sea Trek
AnchorageGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2010, 21:08   #20
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3
I am a TowBoatUS Captain, and this is a professional reply. Several things...The captain should have informed you of the working channel. He also should have responded to you on 16. He should have asked you your draft and the configuration of your keel. He should have informed you that there was a good chance of running aground again before getting you to deep water. If there was the possibility of re-grounding, he should not have been going 6 knots. The idea of running faster to bounce you over the next shoals is mind-boggling. If the deep water was out of the "prescribed" channel, he should have informed you of that and taken that route. If you were bouncing off the bottom, he would have known that. We can "feel" your boat hitting the bottom or even slowing down if it is a mud bottom. There is no way he did not know you were bouncing off a sand bottom.

There are good Captains, great Captains, and some pretty lousy Captains out there. Sorry, but this is like most any business. I had an occasion where I was handing off a boat to another towboat franchise. The other captain and I discussed what we would do for the handoff. He wound up cutting me off and then proceeded to ram the vessel I was towing. After he bounced off them, he did it again! Amazing! So, I am afraid to say that it may be the luck of the draw who you get.

In my professional opinion after towing folks for over eight years in simple tows, hard ungroundings, 8-10 foot confused seas offshore, being inside five foot or better breakers with my boat bouncing off the bottom, soft mud, sand, gale force winds, etc, etc, I believe the TowBoatUS operator you had has a good bit to learn.

In our area, we train our Captains. They are not allowed to take a boat by themselves until they have been on basic, intermediate, and harrowing conditions. They are trained to communicate EVERYTHING with the distressed boat. If they have any questions, they are required to talk to the home office. We insure that they have the knowledge of our entire area (over 90 miles of the ICW, off-shoot creeks and rivers, off-shore up to 100 miles, etc.) before they are set free. Our motto is that we will not damage your boat. If the possibility of damage is there, they must discuss the issue with the distressed boater. We are proud to have one of the best feedback opinions from BoatUS in the industry.

I hearby apologize for the issue you have had for TowBoatUS and all our wonderful Captains. Next time you should ground in my area!!! Sorry, just a joke!

I think that aside from the few bad experiences folks have had with TowBoatUS, the vast majority of experiences are positive. Of course, these go unmentioned!

Captain TowBoatUS
__________________
A_TowBoatUS_Cap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 06:15   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8
Matanzas Inlet is NOT Matanzas ICW

I'll just repeat what a few have pointed out: the Tayana was in the ICW, not the Inlet, which is one of the few wild and undeveloped inlets of EastCoast FL.

The cuts for the ICW here are constantly shoaling from Inlet influences. It's a high maintenance area. If you're running a deep keel at low tide you're going to get in trouble.
__________________
blisspacket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2012, 08:10   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hudson Valley N.Y.
Boat: contessa 32
Posts: 826
Re: Getting Towed Over Shoals...

LESSONS HERE; 1ST reread tow boat captain post above,it's spot on.
2nd post about communication between TWO captains is critical.Do not give up your control of your ship and situation ever unless it's the coasties or somalis pointing guns at you;even then ,explain (nicely ) what needs to happen regarding your boat in order to comply with the gun holders requests/demands.
FWIW: I have been in a number of situations where the person in trouble gave up oversight in a crisis only to have some 'take charge' blowhard make things worse while more experienced and level thinking individuals stood quietly by rolling their eyes.
Often the individuals) in trouble realize he is over his head and is only too willing to let some assertive commando get an adrenaline rush as he "saves the day" for bragging rights at the bar that evening.

Once pulled off a bar(the kind with sand) by Seatow myself; they did a masterful job. Once pulled under a bar by a cute barmaid after closing hours,she was pretty professional too.
__________________
mrohr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 06:38   #23
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,949
Images: 6
Re: Getting Towed Over Shoals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_TowBoatUS_Cap View Post
Next time you should ground in my area!!!
Out of curiosity, what is your area?
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 07:34   #24
Registered User
 
ulpilot45's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montague mi
Boat: gulfstar sloop 44ft
Posts: 77
Has anyone ever watched what your car goes thru as it is towed? It hits every pothole n curb no one feels it because unlike boat your not allowed to ride in it. They too have statement they are not reliable for what happens to car while under tow. However they do have to pay up when push comes to shove. From this experience I would ask lots of questions to both car tow n boat tow. Just my thoughts....the mrs.
__________________
ulpilot45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2012, 19:43   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Boat: Niagara 31
Posts: 252
Re: Getting Towed Over Shoals...

I understand that if you are grounded, with shoals all around you, i.e. you are in a basin surrounded by "hills/shoals", you should be towed out sideways, i.e. the tow line should be attached to stern and bow, so that as you go over the top of a "hill" the boat will tilt as it goes over the top of it. Once you get to constant deeper water, the stern line can be dropped.

This may scratch up the side of your keel, but at it least won't break it out of the hull !
__________________
macbeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2012, 19:57   #26
Registered User
 
tager's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vashon, WA
Boat: Haida 26', 18' Sea Kayak, 15' kayak, 6.5' skiff, shorts
Posts: 837
Re: Getting Towed Over Shoals...

It is for this reason that I hesitate to ever accept a tow or give control to an unknown stranger. I would try kedging off, even, before hiring a towboat to save me. I won't say that ending up on the shoal was unseamanlike, because I, like every seasoned sailor, have run aground. I was just lucky enough to hit un unmarked submerged piling in the Goat Island Cut. A treacherous channel with extreme cross-current.
__________________
tager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2012, 20:14   #27
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Getting Towed Over Shoals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by macbeth View Post
I understand that if you are grounded, with shoals all around you, i.e. you are in a basin surrounded by "hills/shoals", you should be towed out sideways, i.e. the tow line should be attached to stern and bow, so that as you go over the top of a "hill" the boat will tilt as it goes over the top of it. Once you get to constant deeper water, the stern line can be dropped.

This may scratch up the side of your keel, but at it least won't break it out of the hull !

IMO the boat should be taken out the way it came in. That's where the deep water is/was (unless there's been time for the tide to drop).

Get out of your boat -- it's not going anywhere! -- and walk around your boat in circles. Find out for yourself where the shoals are before the two boat gets there so you have time to think about your options.

You might be best to just stay where you are and wait for the tide to rise, although it depends on a lot of things, like how exposed your rudder will be to damage if you do that.

Be VERY certain that the cleats that would have all that tremendous strain put on them won't just rip out of your boat. Mine are attached to the metal toe rail. While that's great for a standard easy tow, to drag my boat across multiple shoals would put a lot of strain. NOWHERE does the toerail leak on this 1983 boat -- and I like it that way. d

I don't have all the experience in the world but I have experienced getting out and walking around the boat. It can give you a lot of information.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2012, 20:44   #28
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbeth
I understand that if you are grounded, with shoals all around you, i.e. you are in a basin surrounded by "hills/shoals", you should be towed out sideways, i.e. the tow line should be attached to stern and bow, so that as you go over the top of a "hill" the boat will tilt as it goes over the top of it. Once you get to constant deeper water, the stern line can be dropped.

This may scratch up the side of your keel, but at it least won't break it out of the hull !
Every grounding is going to be a different situation. If I got to the point that I felt necessary to drag my boat sideways across shoals I would considerit an extreme need and situation. I would mainly be concerned that the tow boat has enough power to get it out and not just wedge it in shallower water, meaning a serious tow boat.

On my boat when grounded I can stand on the bottom. I have off loaded people, and manually turned and headed the boat to deeper water.

On bigger boats we have pushed the nose around with a powerful rib towards deep water and powered out.

On some boats we crank the tunes, pop a beer and wait 6 hours for high tide.

Bottom conditions and how hard we are stuck will also factor in.

Not to be preachy but it starts with prior planning. A good look at the chart and strategy, knowing where the tide is and going slow are keys. Mid to late rising tide is a good time to be poking around in shallow water. Mid falling tide not so much...
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2012, 20:59   #29
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Getting Towed Over Shoals...

Wow! What a nightmare scenario... being dragged over shoals, no comm's, no idea where or how it is going to end. I would be inclined to go foward and cut the tow line. Doesn't anyone look at a sounder anymore? Charts will give you an idea what the general condition of the area is but in shoal waters, they are inaccurate as hell and not to be relied on because that stuff moves around just with the tide.
I grew up and worked on the water in the PNW which is a lot less forgiving as far as bottom conditions are concerned than sandy bottoms. It is mostly rock up there and bottom depths can change from 20 fathoms to 0 very quickly. Towing logs and barges under those conditions required a thorough knowledge of local waters, being able to read a detailed chart (no plotters in those days!), tide and current conditions as well as how your tow was performing, ie. a barge is a lot different than a flat log boom or a bundle boom.
I agree with the towboat Captain who posted above, the guy must have been new, a replacement or completely lacking in experience in the conditions you were in.
Have you examined how you got in to that fix to start with? Could be some lessons learned for many of us here. Thanks for sharing your nightmare. Capt Phil
__________________

__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recreational boaters to pay for being towed through electric jumping carp barrier. David M General Sailing Forum 6 15-09-2009 21:31
Towed Water Generators BlueSovereign Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 16 11-05-2009 00:43
Isle of Shoals Boomp Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 1 18-05-2008 16:43
Towed water generators Wotname Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 7 23-03-2008 09:26
Census of Marine Life, Census of Coral Reefs Expediton to French Frigate Shoals GordMay Pacific & South China Sea 0 13-10-2006 03:29



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.