Getting Long Distances Upwind

[Dockhead]

I'm on my way back to the UK from Finland for the fourth year in a row.

1500 miles against the prevailing winds

My first experience of this was what led me to having new carbon sails made and improving my rig for upwind performance.

Now I start to think about improving my strategy.

Maybe someone has some tips?

I realize many cruisers just wait until they get a wind they like. But it's not an option for me -- I work for a living and am lucky enough as it is to get to sail for a solid month up here, and then a couple of months later, for a solid month back.

Others just put on the iron topsail. I don't mind motoring when it makes sense, but there's usually too much wind for it to make sense motoring against the wind, up here. Sailing is generally much faster.




I generally follow the principles I learned racing decades ago.

1. Always sail the favored tack.

and

2. If the wind is shifting, sail so that you tack in the opposite direction, from how the wind is shifting.


On my route, unlike something like the Baja Bash, I do often have a choice of different destinations along the way, which can be chosen according to the wind. So I might go S when the wind is more W, or W when the wind is more S. But it's still complicated -- if you end up going S and so end up E of where you're trying to get, then you are trapped waiting for something with W in it with no other options.

So inevitably, as much as I would like to avoid it, I always end up tacking at some point. My design goal when I worked on my sails and rig was to be able to make 5 knots VMG to windward in good conditions, but I didn't quite make it. And I REALLY can't make that in the Baltic, where the water surface always moves with the wind, so your tacking angle is always widened by the current So those legs where I have no choice but try to get right to windward, are pretty slow and miserable.

Any tips?

[Cherod]

Not on the sailing technique ,, but depending on where in the UK you are heading , if you are heading for the north of Scotland then certainly consider ( as you previously advised me to do ) the Skagerrak which is the shorter whereas if you are heading for S England then throo the Keil would be better / shorter option .

[Seabeau]

A multi-hulled vessel might be the solution. Greater comfort/less time.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

A multi-hulled vessel might be the solution. Greater comfort/less time.

Surely you jest, sir. A multi for upwind in strong breezes and head seas???

Jim

[Cherod]

4 days from Cuxhaven to Peterhead , wind ahead of the beam almost all the way ,,beat that then

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Surely you jest, sir. A multi for upwind in strong breezes and head seas???

Jim

Well, that's what we have been told recently... that's the way to go... and the bigger the better .. and it will help you avoid all the bad weather as well

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Others just put on the iron topsail. I don't mind motoring when it makes sense, but there's usually too much wind for it to make sense motoring against the wind, up here. Sailing is generally much faster.

Much as I hate using the engine this is one time when I feel it can be very useful and cost effective to motorsail. In my experience a carefull combination of sail and motor can give a much faster and more comfortable VMg than either used alone.

On a cutter I normally use a deep reefed main sheeted flat with a scrap of staysail sheeted tight and near midships with both port and starboard sheets, and the engine ticking over at a comfortable speed is the best way I know to make miles to windward without too much wear and tear on boat and crew in nasty seas. Main thing with this combo is to make sure the sails are producing drive, but also steadying the boat in both pitch, roll and course. But not heeling her too much, no more than 10-15 degrees.

You still tack the boat to windward but can point much higher with the engine ticking over. For some reason the sails add a lot of drive and the boat doesn't seem to stop like it can under engine alone.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

A multi-hulled vessel might be the solution. Greater comfort/less time.

A Chris White Atlantic 57 maybe

But a normal cruising cat upwind against square Baltic waves? I don't think so . . .

Even the Chris White cat (drool) would be very short in the comfort department, in the conditions up here.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Deep reefed main sheeted flat with a scrap of staysail sheeted tight and near midships with both port and starboard sheets, and the engine ticking over at a comfortable speed is the best way I know to make miles to windward without too much wear and tear on boat and crew in nasty seas. Main thing with this combo is to make sure the sails are producing drive, but also steadying the boat in both pitch, roll and course. But not heeling her too much, no more than 10-15 degrees.

You still tack the boat to windward but can point much higher with the engine ticking over. For some reason the sails add a lot of drive and the boat doesn't seem to stop like it can under engine alone.

Spoken like someone who has done the 1400 miles to Montt in the summer..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Deep reefed main sheeted flat with a scrap of staysail sheeted tight and near midships with both port and starboard sheets, and the engine ticking over at a comfortable speed is the best way I know to make miles to windward without too much wear and tear on boat and crew in nasty seas. Main thing with this combo is to make sure the sails are producing drive, but also steadying the boat in both pitch, roll and course. But not heeling her too much, no more than 10-15 degrees.

You still tack the boat to windward but can point much higher with the engine ticking over. For some reason the sails add a lot of drive and the boat doesn't seem to stop like it can under engine alone.

Yes, that's a very good technique, and I use it from time to time for certain conditions. I prefer to sail, but there are some conditions where this works better.

But I'm not actually asking about this -- I'm asking about STRATEGY. Hoping for new ideas about how people exploit wind shifts etc.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Well, that's what we have been told recently... that's the way to go... and the bigger the better .. and it will help you avoid all the bad weather as well

Condomarans may not go to weather, but screw you with your constant multis can't sail rhetoric. My cat, and others like it are perfectly happy going to windward in any kind of conditions. Not necessarily totally comfortable, but certainly capable of making good vmg into the wind. Glasses won't stay on the saloon table, but we also aren't on our ears with the rail buried.

For the OP, your strategies sound good and tack short if you need to so that you don't drive yourself into a corner.

[Seabeau]

Dockhead. Earlier Retirement.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by fxykty

... but screw you with your constant multis can't sail rhetoric.....

Nice...classy even... but be a good chap and show me where I have ever said that 'multis can't sail'.

[Kenomac]

Motor sail or purchase a powercat, trawler or powerboat; you're wasting your time trying to fight Mother Nature.

Or change your cruising strategy. Don't you have this same issue every year?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

. . . Don't you have this same issue every year?

It's not an "issue". It's a challenge