Furler foresail changes at sea

[lockie]

I've been experimenting for some time to figure out how to do this.

So far I've one it 2 ways:

First way is head to wind, using the motor to keep her that way. Second way is running downwind, with the foresail blanketted by the main.

In each case, I run a temporary "sheet" from the clew, inside the shrouds to the main sheet winch. Then as the sail is dropped, I can flake it roughly and then roll it up. It's not the neatest job, but at least it will fit through the hatch.

I'd appreciate any advice to make it easier from you more experienced clever people.

cheers, lockie

[daddle]

Hoist the new sail inside the old sail. Tack over. Ease the old sheet a little and douse the old sail. Do it on a beat or close reach. If it is a big sail and rough weather gasket it every couple of feet and stuff it in the hatch. Deal with it later.

Downwind will only work if conditions permit: the sail can be sheeted tight.

You idea of sheeted inside the shrouds is possibly a good way too.

[lockie]

Originally Posted by daddle

Hoist the new sail inside the old sail

I think I would need a twin-groove foil to do this? Mine alas only has a single groove.

lockie

[daddle]

Yes. You need two slots and two halyards. I would then drop it while sailing on close hauled. Ease the sheet only slightly. The trick is keeping the sail on deck. Many hands make light work. One might rig a second halyard or two to the weather toerail outside the sail to help keep the sail out of the water.

[boatman61]

Pretty much the same way you'd changed a hanked on sail.. point into the wind using jib and main.. set the AP then free the uphaul and pull it down while one other eases the sheet as nessecary.... unclip..
Running before.... snuff the jib using the main and again release the uphaul and use the sheet to control the foot..
Solo.. or crewed.. its works for me..

[lockie]

Thanks all for the your good suggestions.

Now for the hard part.......... I don't have any trouble getting the sail down, but the hard part is to flake/fold/roll it into a manageable sized package that doesn't completely fill the V-berth.

I'm getting better at this (dropping it inside the shrouds was my great leap forward), but I just wondered what other clever things I can do so I end up with a more managable package.

lockie

[Hydra]

I have hank-on sails. When a jib is on the foredeck, I flake it roughly accordion-like, using the hanks on the stay as a guide. Then, I roll the sail as tight as possible, starting at he clew, and I cinch it with a sailtie, to carry it back in the cockpit. The package is small enough to fit in the sailbag.

I suppose you could follow the same principle but it will be more difficult without having a guide controlling the luff.

But why do you want to change the sail on a furler at sea?

Alain

[John A]

The way I did it solo, was to lay the sail dowh the deck between the cabin top and the toe rail roll it up starting at the foot of the sail and I then tied the sail to the top safety line.

Putting the replacement sail up while underway in rough conditions took awhile.

Sometimes, when the foresail becomes damaged while underway and won't rollup, dropping it is your only option.

Don't ask.

[lockie]

Originally Posted by Hydra

But why do you want to change the sail on a furler at sea?

Alain

To reduce sail area when wind increases, a larger headsail (genoa) will lose shape badly when furled by more than 10 - 20%. It also won't have heavy enough cloth to resist stretching when things really get wild. It certainly won't be much use trying to beat with it.

Ergo, drop genoa, put up smaller sail suited to the conditions. Furlers aren't a panacea for everything.

lockie

[Andrew Troup]

If you're on your own, flaking a boltrope headsail is a very difficult operation.

Consider getting your sail modified, with slugs (eg Kiwislides) in front of the boltrope. Now when you drop the sail, it's like a hanked-one sail: you can do a rudimentary flake without disconnecting the luff from the foil.

I don't know of any safe way for a person on their own to change a boltrope headsail at sea in a breeze, unless the sail is fitted with suitable eyelets and a downhaul.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1018537

With two people, flaking is easy if it's done methodically. The key thing is for one person to drive (usually the person at the luff), and person at the other end to mirror exactly what they do.
Person 1 is facing aft. The foot of the sail is inboard and the sail lying along the starboard side of the foredeck and cabintop (say). They grab the luff at the first fold with their left hand. Person 2 mirrors this with their RH where they estimate Fold 1 would intersect with the leech. Person 1 hauls forward with LH on the fold line, as Person 2 hauls aft.
While maintaining this tension (this is the key to flaking quickly and well) Person 1 grabs the luff with their RH in the right place for fold 2. Person 2 mirrors this on the leech with their LH.
Both maintain their equal and opposite tension on fold line 1.
They haul Fold line 2 across into position whilst pulling evenly against each other, Person 1 dictating where the luff ends up. Once it's nearly in position it will become clear who needs to shift their Fold 2 hand.
Once Fold 2 is in position, maintain tension by pulling against each other, let go of Fold 1 and reposition that hand for Fold 3.
As before, maintain the tension along Fold line 2 until Fold 3 is in position and tensioned.
Each fold should line up with the one underneath: Fold line 1 with 3, 2 with 4 etc.

When it's flaked, each person folds up a short section towards the other person, continuing until the two resulting rectangular slabs at the midpoint can be folded together to form a 'brick'

[Hydra]

Then, what is the purpose of a furler for you, if you still have to go on the foredeck?

I prefer hank-on for reliability and flexibility. My boat is slightly bigger than yours and I have always been able to make the sail changes i wanted.

Alain

[lockie]

Originally Posted by Hydra

Then, what is the purpose of a furler for you, if you still have to go on the foredeck?

Alain

Arguing the pro's & cons of furlers is not the purpose of this thread. It's been done many times in other threads. If you hate furlers, start your own thread.

I have a furler, I asked for hints to help me with sail changes. end of story.

lockie

[zeehag]

i have a 41 with a zippered on furling jib. there aint no way i will go forward to remove this 2 man job sail from a pitching foredeck. it will live and love being furled with roller, as it has since 1976.
there is a way to completely furl mine and then add a staysail on a baby stay. but so far, even in 60 +kt wind, i havent had to do that.

[robert sailor]

If you've just got a single groove its damn near impossible to flake it/fold it on the deck single handed when your in a stiff breeze. I've been in similar situations and I put a tarp over the V-berth to protect the foam etc. and I stuff the sail down the forehatch(even that is a lot of work when its blowing) when the wind lightens up I steer downwind and pull the sail back up and fold it along the deck and put it away, not easy either but doable for sure.

[highseas]

The whole purpose of roller reefing is so you don't have to go forward,kind of defeats intended purpose.If its a good quality system and sail is strong it will furl to any size you want.Shape may not be optimal,but works decent on modern boats even when beating.I think a foam luff improves sail shape when reefed.The inner stay with hank on stormjib is way to go for heavy weather,anything over 25kn.and sail should be furled completely anyway.Any sloop can be modified with removeable stay,and halyard.A much safer way to go.