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Old 10-07-2014, 09:20   #16
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Wonder what the heck oldfrogster was trying to accomplish? And even more importantly... why from under the boat?
As usual it took about 5 or 6 posts for Old Frog to realize he hadn't been specific enough in his OP so here goes:

As a club sailor I get on (and race) a lot of different boats (38 or so at last count) and all but a very few have a wheel rather than a tiller.

The range of the wheel from center to rudder stop varies from boat to boat but is usually somewhere between 180 - 270 degrees.

If I know the total rudder arc I can do the arithmetic and figure out how much helm (rudder) I'm adding for any given degree turn of the wheel and therefore how much additional resistance the rudder might be creating in the water, because obviously less is good; more is bad.

I was hoping there is an industry standard regarding full rudder arc for sailboats with a wheel helm since this information is next to impossible to come by on an individual boat basis.

Consequently, if all boats are different, as I suspect they are, I was looking for a quick, easy way to derive the degrees of full rudder arc without hauling out the boat or diving down to inspect it empirically - neither of which are practical, at least not for me.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:30   #17
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

I recently finished an installation on a Catalina 34 using a Simrad hydraulic autopilot. You DO NOT want to exceed the available ram extension by failing to match the travel to the stops. Just keep fiddling with the position on the tiller arm until the stop to stop travel is just less than the available extension/retraction of the ram.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:08   #18
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
As usual it took about 5 or 6 posts for Old Frog to realize he hadn't been specific enough in his OP so here goes:

As a club sailor I get on (and race) a lot of different boats (38 or so at last count) and all but a very few have a wheel rather than a tiller.

The range of the wheel from center to rudder stop varies from boat to boat but is usually somewhere between 180 - 270 degrees.

If I know the total rudder arc I can do the arithmetic and figure out how much helm (rudder) I'm adding for any given degree turn of the wheel and therefore how much additional resistance the rudder might be creating in the water, because obviously less is good; more is bad.

I was hoping there is an industry standard regarding full rudder arc for sailboats with a wheel helm since this information is next to impossible to come by on an individual boat basis.

Consequently, if all boats are different, as I suspect they are, I was looking for a quick, easy way to derive the degrees of full rudder arc without hauling out the boat or diving down to inspect it empirically - neither of which are practical, at least not for me.
Ah Ha!!!

Make sense now, albeit I knew you were a boatpimp that had no qualms slipping your hands on a different helm each time.... casually tossing aside the last ride without regret... Or remorse... (lucky bast.....)

Of all the helm boats "I" have experience with, almost all without fail are 30-45 leaning towards 45... Exception being at least a J120 with way too much, but I digress...

Take a peek at the E-tiller connection and spin the wheel lock to lock... ??? Surely you can eyeball 60 v 90 degrees?
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:20   #19
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Thanks All. Ill post pictures tomorrow. The paint is drying today so its still disassembled. Basically I have twin telestar ballanced cylinders. One pushes while the other pulls. I think I want the best of both worlds so my plan is, after reading this, to install stops with .050 clearance when hard over. Then put a piece of 1/8 inch Buna rubber on it so as the cylinder reaches it full range, its also comrpessing the rubber on the stops. On the front page of the telestar instruction manual it says " before you do it your way, do it our way " or something similar to that, so I will run this by them aslo.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:33   #20
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Ah Ha!!!

Take a peek at the E-tiller connection and spin the wheel lock to lock... ??? Surely you can eyeball 60 v 90 degrees?
Thanks. That's a great idea...and so intuitively obvious I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it.

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Old 10-07-2014, 10:55   #21
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

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Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
Thanks. That's a great idea...and so intuitively obvious I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it.


That's the beauty of friends Frogster.... I've been saved from many a closed door faceplant myself....

Give us an update of how practical this is... I mean, it may be hard to tell on some boats?
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:26   #22
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Here is the mock up,I have since cut a keyway in the quadrant, painted the mounts and turned the teflon shaft bushing. The valves are to keep out the mud dobbers until I get the flex lines.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:46   #23
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt sachs View Post
Here is the mock up,I have since cut a keyway in the quadrant, painted the mounts and turned the teflon shaft bushing. The valves are to keep out the mud dobbers until I get the flex lines.
Looks slick Matt...

When I need somethin' fabbed, Imma loadin' up the truck and headin' to yer place!

Them mud daubers/dobbers are bastards ain't they??? I couldn't hardly keep 'em out of a through hull long enough to get it taped!
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:17   #24
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Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Heres some more fab work. I did the root pass with 6011 and second pass with 7018.
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