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Old 14-12-2013, 10:19   #1051
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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I once steered sharply to avoid the planet Venus...brightly lit on the horizon.

Look what you missed !
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Old 14-12-2013, 10:55   #1052
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

Custom 30, in response to your post #1044,

Quote, They assume they have the right of way because they are fishing, Unquote.

[SIZE="5"]They DO have the right of way when they are fishing. It's in the Colregs.[SIZE="5"]


And this is true also when there are flocks of them. You are burdened to get through the fleet of fisherpeople safely, without interfering with them. Even when you have to gybe or take down a sail. This has nothing to do with what they may assume, it's YOUR responsibility.
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Old 14-12-2013, 10:56   #1053
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

I would have kept on going, to Venus.
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Old 14-12-2013, 11:39   #1054
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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They DO have the right of way when they are fishing. It's in the Colregs
True, as long as they are fishing with the proper fishing signals hoisted or lit. However, I assume that as the stand-on vessel they are still required to stay on course and can not chase you are maneuver into a collision situation ?



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Old 14-12-2013, 12:01   #1055
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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Thus a failure of watch keeping and a failure to give way to a sailing vessel.
The yacht skipper should have simply held his course. He would have been quite right to do this... possibly *dead* right ... but right nevertheless.

Actually if he had held his course there would have been no collision... the ship's watchkeeper had seen him and had altered to starboard.... the yacht skipper caused the collision by poor watchkeeping for whatever reason, lack of spatial awareness, and by altering to port.

Without clogging up things by quoting more quotes all over the place some other points. We will probably never know why he didn't see the ship.. clear dark night with no shore lights to the north west to hide her he should have seen her at 10 miles. While some people's cockpits appear to have a lot of light pollution I personally run a darkened cockpit.... helped in part by until recently only having one functioning instrument with a non-function light. Even now the ones that I have are all dimmed down and covers on all but one or two. On my boat lights on the lee bow are often obscured by the genoa.

Nigel..... memory restored... by 1966 they had dropped the requirement to do 'how's she heading' with sailing ships involved.... it made life a bit simpler. Re Filipino watchkeepers.... the bloke on the yacht had a Swedish qualification.... what does that tell us.... Sweden... the land that gave us IKEA
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Old 14-12-2013, 13:20   #1056
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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the bloke on the yacht had a Swedish qualification.... what does that tell us.... Sweden... the land that gave us IKEA
The report I read said he had Swiss qualifications. Swedes and the Swiss have snow, blondes, clean countries, selective neutrality, great chocolate and other things in common, but we are not the same.



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Old 14-12-2013, 13:25   #1057
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

Oooops... my mistake... 'pologies...
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Old 14-12-2013, 13:27   #1058
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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Oooops... my mistake... 'pologies...
Accepted. Of course, I can't speak for any Swiss CF posters



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Old 14-12-2013, 13:29   #1059
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

I am reading situation after situation where if the person on the yacht had got on the VHF and tried to make passing arrangements with the ship that things would have been predictable and therefore much safer.

Why are so many non-professional boaters so seemingly frightened of making radio contact with a ship? If there is any doubt at all, professionals make radio contact with each other long before a meeting, crossing or overtaking situation occurs in order to make passing arrangements.

Lights and dayshapes only describe status and not necessarily intent. You are far better off getting on the VHF to find out intent. It might also make a dull watch more interesting to talk to someone.

Also, if it is obvious on which side you are going to pass then dont start throwing in tacks a mile or two before your CPA. The best way to get in to a collison is to become unpredictable. Really, you need to make radio contact long before you get this close...long before the COLREG's start applying.

Going right to avoid a collision is the unspoken intenational "rule" for avoiding collision. I was taught this at the maritime academy. Or better defined, you almost never go left to avoid a collision.
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Old 14-12-2013, 13:30   #1060
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

"{However, I assume that as the stand-on vessel they are still required to stay on course"

Well, maybe. Last time I ran into a bunch of fishing boats they were obviously maneuvering to chase schools of fish I couldnt see and were randomly turning this way and that. I imagine the helmsman had his eyes glued to the fishfinder screen. Rather than claim he ought to have kept a lookout for me I thought the best thing might be to steer well clear of him.
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Old 14-12-2013, 13:33   #1061
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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"{However, I assume that as the stand-on vessel they are still required to stay on course"

Well, maybe. Last time I ran into a bunch of fishing boats they were obviously maneuvering to chase schools of fish I couldnt see and were randomly turning this way and that. I imagine the helmsman had his eyes glued to the fishfinder screen. Rather than claim he ought to have kept a lookout for me I thought the best thing might be to steer well clear of him.
Right, I was just asking about the legal requirement on the stand-on vessel.



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Old 14-12-2013, 13:55   #1062
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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Why are so many non-professional boaters so seemingly frightened of making radio contact with a ship? Professionals make radio contact with each other long before a situation occurs in order to make passing arrangements.
Usually do that if there is any question but it doesn't always work.

Sailing South from San Francisco in the fall of 2012 we had an 800' ship (Rose Pantera if I remember the name correctly) repeatedly set off our AIS alarm. There were large swells and the ship's course oscillated significantly (that's the course reported by their AIS) and we were well within the angle of their back and forth course swings. Note; I do not know if the swells could really make their course reporting shift that much but the alternative explanations were less appealing.

So, once again I got on the VHF and started hailing to ask them what they prefer I do. I got no answer and it was beginning to look dicey since they were hauling ass coming down on us fast. I kept hailing and when it seemed they had settled on a new course I adjusted ours to get out of their way, then they swept back again and again set off the AIS predicted proximity alarm.

This was not good so I finally hailed the San Francisco Coast Guard and asked them for help. They got on their much more powerful radios and hailed the ship on a number of channels but finally came back and said that they could get no response and that I should continue to try channel 13 for bridge-to-bridge.

Before they came back with that I'd already decided to start the engine and hurry 90 to starboard. They confirmed that was probably the best thing to do under the circumstances. The rumbling of Rose Pantera's engines was easily heard as she chugged past us well less than 1/2 NM behind our stern a few minutes later.

We were broadcasting AIS B all that time and our friends on Scott Free (sp ?) got on 16 afterwards and asked "was that really as close as it looked on AIS ?". Scott Free was hugging the coast at the time and we and the ship were about 10 Nm out..

I reported back to the USCG that we'd gotten out of the way and that was that.

But I agree, always hail by name to avoid confusion, it works surprisingly well most of the time.



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Old 14-12-2013, 13:57   #1063
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

Vessels engaged in fishiing as defined by the COLREG's are still suposed to hold course and speed, but the reality is if they are actively fishing, especially with nets out, that they are not going to be holding course and speed.
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Old 14-12-2013, 13:59   #1064
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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Fishing vessels as defined by the COLREG's are still suposed to hold course and speed, but the reality is if they are actively fishing, especially with nets out, that they are not going to be holding course and speed.
That's what I would have guessed. So you could end up dead wrong but you also have to make sure that your evasive maneuvers are abundantly clear so there can be no claim that you caused any collision by your maneuvering.

Thx.



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Old 14-12-2013, 14:07   #1065
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Re: Freighters vs. Sailboats

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That's what I would have guessed. So you could end up dead wrong but you also have to make sure that your evasive maneuvers are abundantly clear so there can be no claim that you caused any collision by your maneuvering.

Thx.



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Absolutely! "Early and apparent" maneuver to avoid a collision.
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