Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-11-2012, 22:51   #601
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,413
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulls View Post
Might is right. Cant be bothered to read Col regs at the moment but my understanding is that power gives way to sail unless the power vessel is displaying the shapes or lights saying otherwise. Also some harbour by laws operate in conjunction with the col regs to colour the debate.
Many/most sailboats underway are using their engines, so they're plain motorboats and shouldn't claim privileges of a sailing vessel. Also, a sailing vessel over-taking a motorized vessel gives way to same.
__________________

__________________
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2012, 00:32   #602
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

The colregs are a direct result from cases involving collisions at sea. This day and age, there is always apportionment of blame should a collision occur, no one is right when there is a collision. A lot of small vessel operators do not realize how fast a large ship is coming until it is too late, due to their size they appear to be slower than they actually are. The operational restrictions of large ships are such that it is almost impossible to turn or stop in a timely fashion when in close quarters with smaller vessels. It would be the utmost prudence to never ever pass in front of a large ship regardless of the stand on give way status at the time. Every officer on the bridge of the large ships is doing their utmost to avoid any kind of a collision. The safest for all concerned is pass astern of the large ships, or in a channel stay to the side and let them have the center. As has been stated earlier, dead right is just as dead as dead wrong.
__________________

__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 17:26   #603
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New England
Boat: Prairie 29
Posts: 201
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

OK. Enough lollygagging. Getting the thread back on track requires guidance and direction.

The original topic was about some 'unknown' reason why freighters and sailboats come in close circumstances, with sometimes disastrous results. How to avoid and handle the situation.

This is truly a matter of life and death. P.S. Sorry for being melodramatic.
__________________
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 17:46   #604
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by cappy208 View Post
OK. Enough lollygagging. Getting the thread back on track requires guidance and direction.

The original topic was about some 'unknown' reason why freighters and sailboats come in close circumstances, with sometimes disastrous results. How to avoid and handle the situation.

This is truly a matter of life and death. P.S. Sorry for being melodramatic.
Oh, that's all people want to know? That's easy.

1. Post a proper watch.
2. Know the COLREGS.
3. Communicate your intentions.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 17:58   #605
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, Wash.
Boat: no longer on my Cabo Rico 38 Sanderling
Posts: 1,794
Send a message via MSN to John A
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Oh, that's all people want to know? That's easy.

1. Post a proper watch.
2. Know the COLREGS.
3. Communicate your intentions.
4. Pray the other vessel does the same
__________________
John A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 18:05   #606
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New England
Boat: Prairie 29
Posts: 201
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

It appears that the real issue seems to be that not enough people are being awakened to this dilemma. How to spread the word? Ignorance is not allowed, but it certainly seems to be commonplace. How to educate the masses?
__________________
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 10:20   #607
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New England
Boat: Prairie 29
Posts: 201
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Silence............. I hope everyone is having a great summer, Enjoy.
__________________
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2013, 11:43   #608
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

I' haven't had a collision with a freighter, yet, (knock on wood). I must be doing something right.
__________________
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2013, 16:50   #609
Registered User
 
BigBoater917's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Boat: 1973 Jacobsen 110'
Posts: 112
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

This is an interesting subject and the way many of you think is a real insight. There is a similar thread with a view from the commercial vessels standpoint here. AIS How do you use it? Vs Small vessles.

In the end we're all out here together and all want to make it home unscathed. So keep a good lookout and an eye on the weather.
__________________
20 years and too many miles to count under the stern.
BigBoater917 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 09:30   #610
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Just a observation... ColReg rules 14 & 15 (head-on and crossing situations) are specifically applicable only in cases involving two power driven vessels in sight of one another... And for that matter, all of section 2 is applicable only to vessels in sight of one another. Outside of channels and TSSs, by the letter of the law, a power driven vessel is required to give way to a sailboat under sail (ie without their prop engaged) with no regard to their sizes. In a uncrowded situation, most professional mariners will follow COLREGS without complaint (within reason - they're not moving for a 26' daysailer). In inland waters vessels required to operate in a channel have the 'right of way' in that channel, and small vessels should strive to avoid creating problems in a TSS (read ColRegs if you want to nitpick my generalities).
And 'stand on vessel' means just that; a sailboat under sail does not have the authority under ColRegs to tack and jibe down the center of a restricted waterway in front of commercial traffic!
That being said...
For a small sailboat, a danger of collision might be considered a situation developing at a few hundred yards. On a large merchant the 'danger of collision' zone is determined by the master, can depend on several factors but can by a few hundred yards or several miles wide.
Obviously the catch-all is rule 2 - Nothing exonerates a vessel from complying with "the ordinary practice of seamen or the special circumstances of the case." All vessels have to take the limitations of both vessels involved into consideration, and both parties are obligated to maneuver to avoid collision.
In US waters the safest and expected action is to hail any vessel whose intentions are unknown on bridge to bridge and ALWAYS monitor BtB ch 16. In open and foreign waters, when someones intentions are unknown, use sound signals.

I admit I didn't read all 40 pages of this thread... Sorry if I'm just re-hashing something already stated!
__________________
mkevink86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 09:49   #611
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New England
Boat: Prairie 29
Posts: 201
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

@MKevin86: You are correctly summing up the legal aspect. But the real issue is the determination of 'when a vessel has changed from Stand on to Give way.' As you mentioned, the litmus test for each is different. Sailboats (and small yachts in General) have a 'danger zone' of about a couple hundred yards. While large commercial vessels have a danger zone of between a half and 2 miles. My particular Tugboat is spectacularly manueverable. I can turn inside a quarter mile (if there is land room) But most large ships cannot match a yachts maneuvering characteristics. Even more importantly, I know of very FEW yachters who even know there is a difference between the two. This is brought up by my experience seeing yachts of all types running directly in front of, beside, and along commercial vessels, in such a way that if ANYTHING were to go wrong, they would be run over with NO way for me to do ANYTHING to avoid it. I have seen jetskis operating directly along side my barge, riding the wake. TOUCHING the hull. If they sneezed, they could possibly lose control and get sucked into the wash. I have seen small powerboats go UNDER the bows, to play in the bow wave. Sailboats, who I have altered course for, aiming past their stern, suddenly come about, and go back, across my bow (again) because they couldn't tell if I was going to run them over. I have said it repeately in this forum, too many boat operators don't have a freaking clue about general seamanship and boat handling. Just because you have the money to buy one, does NOT make you Lord Nelson of the Yacht Club.
__________________
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 16:18   #612
Registered User
 
brutb's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cocoa, FL
Boat: Wittholz 39' Cutter by Kanter, CSY 37 Cutter
Posts: 598
Images: 4
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

__________________
brutb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 16:41   #613
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,593
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Would you send your kids for sailing lessons at this Yacht Club ......
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Regatta.jpg
Views:	211
Size:	48.5 KB
ID:	63642  
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 10:58   #614
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New England
Boat: Prairie 29
Posts: 201
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Give me time. This was taken on watch this morning. Note the buoy just to the left of the mast. Thats the Green, I am trying to keep on my STB side

This guy is coming out of about 18' of water. I am drawing 23'. Where can I go, to NOT go aground IF his little old outboard gets a slug of water and dies? The channel is 400' wide. I am 80' wide. Who is the idiot here? (I know, I will be made out to be the scape goat by his decendents) BUT, really. Why would someone do this? One word. Ignorance. It happens in narrow channels, and at sea.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	What's that thing in front of us..jpg
Views:	250
Size:	414.9 KB
ID:	63662  
__________________
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 11:36   #615
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by cappy208 View Post
It appears that the real issue seems to be that not enough people are being awakened to this dilemma. How to spread the word? Ignorance is not allowed, but it certainly seems to be commonplace. How to educate the masses?

I put it on my blog for newer sailors, because many who read it are in the Tamps Bay area, and it's a very real issue here.

The ColRegs are based on which boat has the most maneuverability. Since there's no excuse for not seeing a freighter except perhaps the worst of fog conditions, and since the sailboat is greatly more maneuverable, it is up to the sailboat to get out of the way and stay out of the way of the freighter -- or cruise liner.

That's just how it is.

I think the best way to communicate this is to not get bogged down in technicalities. Newer sailors don't know enough to follow such a discussion and it might cause them to stop reading and end up confused.

It's simple. The freighter has the right of way.
__________________

__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Timeless Elegance Of Multi Mast Sailboats In Photographs GaryMayo Monohull Sailboats 15 23-07-2012 23:30
Any Info About Northern Sailboats ? Snore Monohull Sailboats 10 27-03-2012 14:24
Easterly Sailboats easterly38 Monohull Sailboats 0 11-12-2011 14:02
Survey of Production Sailboats Under $50K BajaSurvey Commercial Posts 0 05-12-2011 17:18



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.