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Old 26-11-2012, 18:14   #586
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Looks like simply passing port-to-port. There seems to be a sail trim issue.
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Old 26-11-2012, 18:16   #587
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

There is a great poem we had to learn years ago at warsash merchant school.

Hear lies the body of Daniel O Day
who died while maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right as he sailed along,
but he is just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

I have also found that the big ships have always been very good at applying the col regs on open water and confined water. Have often seen a big ship alter course to take us into account. Yachts often lack the speed to move out of the way quickly. And please i do try my best to keep clear.
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Old 27-11-2012, 08:48   #588
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

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Originally Posted by daddle View Post
Um ... almost nobody but armchair sailors adhere to the COLREGS. These people are not unsafe, just practical. (Hmmm...where did I store that black ball and inverted cone....)
Unfortunately, in the "real world" Daddle is quite correct. Having almost been run down many times by all types of private and commercial vessels - smaller than large freighters/ cruise ships - it does seem that the only relevant COLREG is the final one which states "do whatever is necessary to avoid a collision."

Here in South Florida the COLREG booklet is only available in American English Language (last time I looked) so 75% of the folks out on the water cannot even read it. Move on down to the islands of the Bahamas and the Carribbean and access to the COLREG's by the "locals" is totally non-existent.

All of which means, if you plan on going cruising you had better plan on getting out of the way of any and everything out there on the water.
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Old 27-11-2012, 09:20   #589
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Wow. 40 pages. Physics takes a lot less time.
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Old 27-11-2012, 09:33   #590
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

It is important to realize that the Colregs were written by lawyers in order to assign fault in courts of Law.

To lawyers commen sense is not an option.
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Old 27-11-2012, 10:11   #591
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It is important to realize that the Colregs were written by lawyers in order to assign fault in courts of Law.

To lawyers commen sense is not an option.
Not true at all. They were written to establish standardised collision avoidance practices, they are a model of common sense.
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Old 27-11-2012, 10:19   #592
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Not true at all. They were written to establish standardised collision avoidance practices, they are a model of common sense.
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I believe it was Voltaire who shared "common sense is not so common," although he probably said it in French.
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Old 27-11-2012, 10:20   #593
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Not true at all. They were written to establish standardised collision avoidance practices, they are a model of common sense.
Dave

Nothing else needs adding
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Old 27-11-2012, 10:43   #594
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulls View Post
There is a great poem we had to learn years ago at warsash merchant school.

Hear lies the body of Daniel O Day
who died while maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right as he sailed along,
but he is just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

I have also found that the big ships have always been very good at applying the col regs on open water and confined water. Have often seen a big ship alter course to take us into account. Yachts often lack the speed to move out of the way quickly. And please i do try my best to keep clear.

So when did you serve your time at Warsash, I suffered the place over a 4 year period in the late 70's and early 80's, never did get to learn that poem though, but its got that right of way bit mentioned on the second line, which is not part of the colregs, although there appear to a lot of folks who think it is
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Old 27-11-2012, 11:28   #595
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Unfortunately, in the "real world" Daddle is quite correct. Having almost been run down many times by all types of private and commercial vessels - smaller than large freighters/ cruise ships - it does seem that the only relevant COLREG is the final one which states "do whatever is necessary to avoid a collision."

Here in South Florida the COLREG booklet is only available in American English Language (last time I looked) so 75% of the folks out on the water cannot even read it. Move on down to the islands of the Bahamas and the Carribbean and access to the COLREG's by the "locals" is totally non-existent.

All of which means, if you plan on going cruising you had better plan on getting out of the way of any and everything out there on the water.
Just when did it become the responsibility of anyone other than the operator of a vessel to supply colregs to everyone, in any language?
It is the responsibility of the operator of EVERY vessel to know and understand whatever is necessary to safely operate ANY, vehicle, vessel or aircraft.
The colregs ARE available in the Bahamas and every island in the Caribbean, by the way. The internet exists in the 3rd world too, wherever it may not be printed by a government.
My chief officer's license, which I got in PNG was a 25 hour examination, not a multiple choice "give me" license like the USCG one I hold.
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Old 27-11-2012, 11:41   #596
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

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Wow. 40 pages. Physics takes a lot less time.
Yeah, but in the end it's all relative
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Old 27-11-2012, 12:02   #597
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

The Colregs actually ARE common sense, if you read and understand them.

No-one is actually saying violate the Colregs, that is a straw-man put forth by those who haven't chosen to understand them.

Two points clearly stated
2. Do not maneuver to cause a collision,
9. DO Not impede a vessel in a channel.

Try to follow those two items and the above picture will not happen. In order for a freighter to collide with a sailboat he had to have violated both of the above rules.

Then he had the temerity to quote the one rule in his defense. A vessel under power is the give way vessel to a vessel under sail,.......IF none of the other rules apply.

If I am in open water in a power boat, and see a sailboat under sail, and on a collision course, as the give way vessel I will alter my course, and likely he will never know I was there.

In a shipping channel, a sudden swerve in front of my bow, will likely leave me with no options. AND violates two of the above rules.

Pedestrians also have the "right of way" over cars, does that mean you can step in front of one going 60MPH??? Sure you could, it is perfectly legal, and your decendants can sue the driver...no problem.
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Old 27-11-2012, 16:42   #598
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
So when did you serve your time at Warsash, I suffered the place over a 4 year period in the late 70's and early 80's, never did get to learn that poem though, but its got that right of way bit mentioned on the second line, which is not part of the colregs, although there appear to a lot of folks who think it is
Was there in 96 doing a sea survival course related to the RYA and it came up while talking to one of the instructers. Right of way just rhymed better then stand on or whatever i suspect, its not a technical treatise on the subject but a good look at the attitude of the mariner involved. I suspect alot of incidents on the water come down to the attitude of the seaman involved and how he applies the col regs. I have always thought the col regs were well written and come across as a practical document rather than a legal document.
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Old 27-11-2012, 17:26   #599
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

AAAhhhhh yeah! Bring on the Colregs as you hum the lyrics of Daniel O'Day. Yah might not like it, but might is right so be it. Its like trying to repeal Ohm's Law!
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Old 27-11-2012, 22:29   #600
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Re: Freighters vs. sailboats

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AAAhhhhh yeah! Bring on the Colregs as you hum the lyrics of Daniel O'Day. Yah might not like it, but might is right so be it. Its like trying to repeal Ohm's Law!
Yours doesn't rhyme.....
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