Engine-less Cruising

[Jammer Six]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

About the Pardeys getting tows into port: It is my understanding from talking with senior sailors (folks in their 80's and older) that it was very, very common for a boat coming into port in the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's to be met by a yacht club member, harbor master/employee, or fisherman and given a tow into the marina/dock/mooring field--or even if the sailboat had a motor, often the larger boats were tended into their tight berths. It seems this wasn't uncommon back thenwhile today we expect each boat to self sufficiently do it all.

Now, that's an interesting comment! And it makes sense to me.

I've seen "times change" in my trade, and things are done very differently than they were in the 70s.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

Now, that's an interesting comment! And it makes sense to me.

I've seen "times change" in my trade, and things are done very differently than they were in the 70s.

No, Jammer, no page number and title; it's been too long since I read the books for me to remember, and where I am now, do not have access to them to do the research.

I bow to Redbopeep's superior knowledge on this one, I did not know it had been during the times in question standard practice to get towed in to marinas or anchorages. Also, FWIW, there are a lot more boats out there now, both in marinas [seemingly designed by the folks who make parking lots] and mooring fields, and in anchorages. I'm suggesting that the older marinas may have been more user friendly to engineless boats and the tenders which assisted them than some of the current ones. In any event, I think we both need engines and need to have workable plans for when we don't have their use.

[captain58sailin]

I think things were not as mercenary as they are today. Yacht clubs, marinas etc... would extend these helping hands as a part of the all around good will towards mariners and as a part of the "We are all in this together." spirit, so it was no trouble to help a fellow mariner, confident that sometime in the future the one giving the help may well have to ask for help in return, whether it was from the mariner that they just helped or another mariner. The whole "Pay it forward." concept before the movie.

[Dexterbase]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

Not sure what the point is to not have an engine on a boat.
Sounds like some kind of fundamentalist religion thing. Why not a boat without anchors?

I have no engine in the boat because a previous owner tore it out when he blew it up.

This is the boat I have now and I'm going to sail because I love being on the water.

I'm a full-time nursing student living off the odd scholarship and trying to get by on what I was able to save before my Post 9/11 GI Bill ran out last semester.

I have a 2GM20 basket case I'm working on getting rebuilt one part at a time but I'm realistically a year away from having that in the boat. I'm not going to sit here on Monterey Bay with a gorgeous (in my opinion) boat and not sail.

I just have to pay close attention to weather, religiously check forecasts, and keep a constant eye on changing conditions while out in the bay. We go out for six or seven hours and get ten or fifteen miles out and while I'm aware that the absence of an engine means I won't be able to get out of certain situations, I try my best to think ahead and avoid those situations.

Don't get me wrong, given the choice and resources I would haul the boat tomorrow and install an engine.

The reality for me at this time is having to choose between staying tied to the mooring or head out without an engine. Choice is simple in my heart and mind.

That being said, I am not willing to attempt any type of passage until I have the diesel installed.

[Jammer Six]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

No, Jammer, no page number and title; it's been too long ...

Okay. Thanks for the response.

You and I read the same books and came to very different conclusions.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by conachair

Fine offshore but severely limiting, no trips up rivers, .

This is one of the reasons I've always said, I learned more to enhance my cruising lifestyle ,
due to the years I spent racing...

The Yacht Club I belong to is some 60 miles up river from the Pacific Ocean and we put on Two of the most well known and respected races in the states..
The annual "Ditch Run" from SanFrancisco to Stockton and the "South Tower Race" from Stockton to the south tower of the golden gate and back to stockton.. uasally a 24 hour event with most of the time spent on the rivers of the delta..
The "Ditch Run" is known for bringing out the big sleds and hi-speed multis and all done--- up river... we do have a cruising devision allowing the use of a motor for up to 4 hours but most of the over 150 boats in the race, either dont have a motor or chose not to use it..

[Schooner Chandlery]

Just read, today, in the November issue of Lat38 (page 42 ISSUU - Latitude 38 Nov. 2013 by Latitude 38 Publishing, LLC) mention that you don't need an engine cruising the Caribbean because loads of winds--proving the point was single hander Steve Schmidt with his Santa Cruz 70 (yes, that's a bigggggggg! boat) and busted transmission who cruised there for two years sans-engine propulsion.

When I learn of such exploits, I realize I'm just not, at all, in the league of so many great sailors out there.

[w32honu]

We sailed for many years without an engine. 24 foot gaff rigged sloop with an oar and little to no systems on board……

I think it may depend somewhat on where one does their sailing. In our case we were in the Hawaiian Islands enjoying the sweet consistency of the trade winds. We sailed inshore and off shore. In heavy conditions and light. Day and night. We managed to visit almost all of the islands. And I have to say we learned a lot and it was pretty rewarding. Maybe the best times we have ever had while cruising. We had no problems maneuvering in and out of marinas, bays, anchorages………whatever……you name it.

Today we sail a 32 foot Chuck Paine designed sloop that is a bit of a hybrid. I removed the diesel and have custom designed and built a well for a 15hp Honda. The aperture has been filled and the underbody is pure sailing boat. If your boat is a good performer, especially in light air, the tendency is to sail her. We focus on the sailing part of the equation and it has worked out to be very efficient for us.

At the same time we have the option to motor. The irony is that the 15hp Honda turns out to be a better performer than the inboard. I figure that the original folding prop with a bit of growth on it was less than efficient as a foil. I know the theory and the math say otherwise and it should not be, but it is.

I think that there are still folks out cruising on engineless or nearly engineless boats. My guess is that they might not spend a lot of time on the net talking about it. I wonder if the modern sense of cruising has gone a bit too far in the dependence of gadgets and mechanics. Whether it is blowing hard or light one is less apt to set the proper amount of sail and grind a winch.

Just my two cents.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

This is one of the reasons I've always said, I learned more to enhance my cruising lifestyle ,
due to the years I spent racing...

The Yacht Club I belong to is some 60 miles up river from the Pacific Ocean and we put on Two of the most well known and respected races in the states..
The annual "Ditch Run" from SanFrancisco to Stockton and the "South Tower Race" from Stockton to the south tower of the golden gate and back to stockton.. uasally a 24 hour event with most of the time spent on the rivers of the delta..
The "Ditch Run" is known for bringing out the big sleds and hi-speed multis and all done--- up river... we do have a cruising devision allowing the use of a motor for up to 4 hours but most of the over 150 boats in the race, either dont have a motor or chose not to use it..

Yep, that's one race, one 24 hour period. I raced for years like that never using a motor, (we don't have engines on small racing catamarans) but cruising without a motor for months on end is a totally different animal...............

Sitting for 2-3 hours without wind on my catamarans during races really is a pain but not a big deal as compared to cruising without an engine.

Some channels are very narrow not to mention getting into some tight slips.

[sck5]

I CAN get from island to island in the Caribbean without motoring. But why would I WANT to? I dont know about you but when I am at the end of a passage and the anchorage is in sight I want to get there, get the anchor down and heave a sigh while drinking a cold beverage. Tacking back and forth for a few hours in honor of not burning a pint or two of diesel does not appeal. If it appeals to some then by all means they should do it. Whatever makes you happy, I say.

[Jammer Six]

Originally Posted by sck5

But why would I WANT to?

Because there are significant advantages to having no engine. Just like there are significant advantages to having an engine. Or a screw driver. Or coffee. Or a third headsail.

You makes your choices and you takes your chances.

One of the advantages I just noticed yesterday is that at least one of the cruisers in our fleet is down by the ass. We can change a lot of things, but one of the big things we can't change is where the engine is and how much it weighs. And it would take an awful lot of changes to counterbalance it.

[captain58sailin]

Okay, I can sail engineless, but I cannot go coffeeless that is just wrong and bad things would happen to my crew if I should run out of coffee. Everything else is negotiable.

[gjordan]

A few pints of fuel are nothing when compared to the cost, noise, smell, heat, and maintenance of an inboard diesel. Having said that, I dont really recommend cruising without an engine, unless you are a real hard core sailor, OR UNLESS YOU ARE POOR. Other than big name boats, small cruising boats are so cheap today, that even needing a refit, you can still go cruising on a budget. The big expenses are rig and engine. If you can only afford one or the other ,which makes more sense? All this talk about manuvering in marinas makes no sense. If you cant afford an engine stay out of money sucking marinas. In about 12 years of cruising, I only tied up in marinas about one week a year, usually just before or just after a haulout. I agree that waiting outside of an anchorage for daylight , when you could see it before dark, but could not get there is frustrating, but not as frustrating as working at the widget factory for another year to pay for an engine and all of the other stuff that goes along with it. Maybe the question should be HOW BADLY DO YOU WANT TO GO CRUISING? and the answer should be HOW LARGE OR SMALL IS YOUR WALLET????? ______Grant.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by StuM

> took a lot of guts,skill, luck, guardian angels

While engineless, he did have 85 crew including marines who could sail/row the longboat, pinnace, yawl and two skiffs they carried and also man the set of sweeps they had.

They might not have had any horsepower to manouver, but they had quite a bit of manpower.

An awful lot of shipwrecks and loss of life in the days of engineless sailing ships, too, don't forget. A lee shore is a whole different kettle of fish a if you don't have mechanical propulsion.

[captain58sailin]

Amen to that.