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Old 27-02-2014, 17:56   #121
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

Years ago while cruising in Mexico the waterpump failed and I ordered one from Downwind marine but in those days it was put on the next cruising boat heading that way. The system worked but it took 3 months. We sailed everywhere and it actually added to the adventure. I rarely if ever motor on a passage, like others there is something nice about going with the flow. The downfall to being becalmed is that the boat always lays beam on to the swell so its like living inside a metronome.
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Old 27-02-2014, 17:57   #122
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

Cook was almost unique among captains of his era in being concerned that his men might infect the South Sea island populations with VD, and it's an unquestioned matter of record that he did everything in his power to contain and prevent it.

It didn't help that Joseph Banks, who considered himself Cook's equal in terms of the hierarchy and was of course his 'superior' in social terms, was an enthusiastic practitioner of the horizontal arts.
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Old 27-02-2014, 18:03   #123
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

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Lots of ports and fairway approaches will not let you sail in , hence you really need an engine.

Marinas are laid out on the assumption of power too.

Dave
I reckon it's all to the good having some destinations and facility types automatically rule themselves out. There is such a bewildering plethora of choice, otherwise...

... besides, it seems to me that marinas are worse than shopping malls, in terms of squeezing the joy and exuberance out of living.

Trouble with joy and exuberance is that you can't monetise 'em.
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Old 27-02-2014, 18:16   #124
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

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I reckon it's all to the good having some destinations and facility types automatically rule themselves out. There is such a bewildering plethora of choice, otherwise...



... besides, it seems to me that marinas are worse than shopping malls, in terms of squeezing the joy and exuberance out of living.



Trouble with joy and exuberance is that you can't monetise 'em.

Oh I don't know , last year I was in the small marina , near St jean, cap ferat. Tired up with the local inshore fishing boats. Sardines ( of some sort ) , sea bream , for peanuts. all the mega stuff can't fit in

I like marinas integrated into the local towns , I hate some of the big impersonal , miles from anywhere , rich ghetto ones. As they say ymmv.

Dave
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Old 27-02-2014, 18:29   #125
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

Sounds good to me, Dave.

But I doubt most such workmanlike marinas would forbid engineless manoeuvres, provided they were done with discretion - at least, I hope they wouldn't.

I've had to assist people do just that even in the other sort of marina, and have never been pinged.

But as far as marinas go, (except in the far north) where I live is generally pretty 3rd world ... my home port can't seem to hang onto a marina; they keep being scattered to/by the winds. (I exaggerate, I think we've only gone through two, but it might be three).

It's noticeable that the surrounding cruising grounds are almost deserted. Much more so than before marinas were invented.

Yay!
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Old 27-02-2014, 21:39   #126
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

Some of the most beautiful sailing of my life have been when I didnt have an engine or didnt have enough fuel to run it. Going from the NE trades to the SE trades on my way to the Marquesas was simply going into a mild squall in the NE to a nice light breezes in the SE trades which picked up a little at a time over the next few days. I poked my head up after the squall and trimmed up the boat and realized I was in the SE trades. No drama! A year later on my way from the Tuamotus to Hawaii, I spent 2 wonderful days in the doldrums, and only made a few miles, but it was beautiful. It was so calm that I tried to spear a Mahi Mahi that was lying in the shadow of the boat. It stayed safe, but I had fun. A few years later, I was on my way from St Thomas to Bermuda, and I had a very small fuel supply, so I saved it for the harbor at the end. I spent several days with almost no progress and a few nights when it was so calm at night that I could read by candle light in the cockpit. The Sargasso Sea can make you crazy(only if you have a head start), but can also be a wonderful experience. The only time I had no wind and a swell, I dropped the main (just slatting) and hoisted the trysail as high as I could, and it slowed the roll down to a reasonably comfortable rate. Engines are wonderful for either end of a passage, but are really not needed at all to get from point A to point B. I wonder how the Hiscocks got around the world with their 4 HP inboard with I think about a 6 gallon fuel tank. Just another opinion. _____Grant.
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Old 27-02-2014, 22:49   #127
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

We did 5 months in the Marianas with out power, do to a spun main bearing. Coming from a power boat up bringing, it was real tough at first, mostly anchoring and leaveing some places we anchored!! but we did allright, at least we made it to Guam where I could fix it !! Much rather have my engine available. No engineless cruisers for us !!
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Old 28-02-2014, 02:11   #128
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Re: Engine-less cruising

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X2

Other than publicity stunts, we've yet to come across someone actually out cruising without a motor.
Might be a bit late to reply, but we met at least 2 engineless cruisers within 6 months time near St. Maarten. One was a solo sailor having a heck of a time picking up a mooring by himself. Another couple sailing engineless had a young child and a second on the way. The last time we saw them they were leaving the Caribbean headed to South America in a small (about 28 foot) boat.

We maneuvered the islands on a 42 foot boat engineless out of necessity for a while (several islands, moorings, and days), and discovered that we could sail into and out of harbors/moorings engineless if we had to, but we definitely prefer the peace of mind an engine offers when the wind dies and the current is taking you coastal. We also had to maneuver a drawbridge without engine and following that experience, I would not recommend trying it under sail. You can tell the operator that you have no engine (we did), but he or she might not fully understand what that means. The consequence might be that it is to late to turn back after he/she has called you into a narrow channel with other boats and then decided NOT to raise the bridge or to lower it early. We had a dinghy with an outboard tied tightly to the port stern. Without it, we would have lost at minimum our mast.

One of my favorite moments sailing will always be falling off a mooring on a headsail without ever starting the engine. But I still want at least an outboard for those unexpected (human) situations.
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Old 28-02-2014, 03:12   #129
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

This is complicated all these views. What is really at play here? One says you can't go engineless at some particular location because he motored 50% of the time (I know someone who sailed 100% of the time right there). All he's saying is he's a motor sailor.
Someone else says because Capt Cook would have motored if the technology were available, cruisers should too. Well, all work boats in the world converted to diesel last century, because they are running a business, not doing a sport. I'm in cruising for the sport & don't need to keep to a schedule.
Treating cruising as a sport is satisfying, treating it as a business (i.e. motoring) is less so.
PS, we have a motor, but carry only 37L of fuel, so its for in/out of ports only.
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Old 28-02-2014, 04:01   #130
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

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This is complicated all these views. What is really at play here? One says you can't go engineless at some particular location because he motored 50% of the time (I know someone who sailed 100% of the time right there). All he's saying is he's a motor sailor.
Someone else says because Capt Cook would have motored if the technology were available, cruisers should too. Well, all work boats in the world converted to diesel last century, because they are running a business, not doing a sport. I'm in cruising for the sport & don't need to keep to a schedule.
Treating cruising as a sport is satisfying, treating it as a business (i.e. motoring) is less so.
PS, we have a motor, but carry only 37L of fuel, so its for in/out of ports only.
When did cruising become a "sport"? What is the criteria to get the gold medal?

We cruise as a means to travel and explore. If it makes sense, we will shake the sails out. If it makes sense, we will crank up the motor. Seriously, even with the motor we top out around 7.5kts, hardly racing speeds.

I don't feel the need to mess with everyone coming up a channel as I tack across the full width because I'm proving it's possible.
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Old 28-02-2014, 04:05   #131
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

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When did cruising become a "sport"? What is the criteria to get the gold medal?

We cruise as a means to travel and explore. If it makes sense, we will shake the sails out. If it makes sense, we will crank up the motor. Seriously, even with the motor we top out around 7.5kts, hardly racing speeds.

I don't feel the need to mess with everyone coming up a channel as I tack across the full width because I'm proving it's possible.
So you would not take umbridge if it were pointed out that you are therefore a motor-sailor?
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Old 28-02-2014, 04:09   #132
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

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This is complicated all these views. What is really at play here? One says you can't go engineless at some particular location because he motored 50% of the time (I know someone who sailed 100% of the time right there). All he's saying is he's a motor sailor.
Someone else says because Capt Cook would have motored if the technology were available, cruisers should too. Well, all work boats in the world converted to diesel last century, because they are running a business, not doing a sport. I'm in cruising for the sport & don't need to keep to a schedule.
Treating cruising as a sport is satisfying, treating it as a business (i.e. motoring) is less so.
PS, we have a motor, but carry only 37L of fuel, so its for in/out of ports only.
I.e you treat your motor as a true auxiliary.

It all seems it is different strokes for different folks. How boring would it be if we all did the same thing - would be nothing to discuss and argue about on CF!
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Old 28-02-2014, 06:06   #133
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

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So you would not take umbridge if it were pointed out that you are therefore a motor-sailor?
Why would I? I just said, I have no moral dilema with turning on the motor if it makes sense to ensure safety and good seamanship.
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Old 28-02-2014, 13:42   #134
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

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Why would I? I just said, I have no moral dilema with turning on the motor if it makes sense to ensure safety and good seamanship.
Fair call and a good thought process.
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Old 28-02-2014, 13:50   #135
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Re: Engine-less Cruising

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This is complicated all these views. What is really at play here? One says you can't go engineless at some particular location because he motored 50% of the time (I know someone who sailed 100% of the time right there). All he's saying is he's a motor sailor.
Someone else says because Capt Cook would have motored if the technology were available, cruisers should too. Well, all work boats in the world converted to diesel last century, because they are running a business, not doing a sport. I'm in cruising for the sport & don't need to keep to a schedule.
Treating cruising as a sport is satisfying, treating it as a business (i.e. motoring) is less so.
PS, we have a motor, but carry only 37L of fuel, so its for in/out of ports only.
I support the thrust of your message. I'm not inclined to take offence at the use of the word "sport". I'm assuming it's a catch-all for "everything which is not business"

In other words, it seems to me that you are choosing that arbitrary term to encompass a bunch of concepts including leisure, relaxation, travel, recreation, organic social interaction, and friendly competition for other reasons than profit and the seeking of advantage.

Which is a big mouthful, in comparison with the word 'sport'.


And I don't think anyone could make a strong case for finding fault with where others choose to draw the line and reach for the starter button, on their own boats.

Where I personally find it interesting is when people with different priorities are "all in the same boat", and you've hit the nail on the head, for me, by identifying the "business" element.

In my youth I did quite a bit of sailing in a navigator or sailing master role for successful business people and 'captains of industry' of my acquaintance (many of whom I knew through a shared interest in the mountains).

These were men who had come to sailing later in life, too late (they thought) to pick up the necessary skills.

I enjoyed their company greatly, and we went on some great trips to some stunning and remote places, but the one thing on which we invariably failed to see eye-to-eye was on the question of going to weather.

But the man who pays the piper calls the tune, so I would bite my lip as a superb sailing machine, capable of slicing at a judicious angle to the wind like an enchanted cetacean, would instead buck and writhe and snarl its way laboriously into the eye of wind and sea like a rhinoceros chained to a trampoline.
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